Side Mount Bicker Battle...

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Razorista

Contributor
Messages
728
Reaction score
72
Location
Germany
# of dives
1000 - 2499
... don't let people talk you into the it is superior, and oooohh sssosooo easy. ...
There is often a misunderstanding about priorities in the discussions.

It is hard to reach perfection without good training and a lot of experience, quite probably most people would need infinite experience without ever being able to reach perfection.

Survival, however, is perfectly simple and easy in a sidemount config.
Good buoyancy control (or at least adequate) is more or less 'build in'.
Current is not something to fear, but use to your advantage.
Speed and maneuverability will be the best the diver can manage without electric propulsion, even with inadequate fins or without.
Even the hardest entry and exit becomes 'survivable' for anyone: injured, disabled, distracted or healthy.
Overweighting much is rare in sidemount, rarer already with rudimentary training, nearly unthinkable with a good trainer or only a couple of dives experience.
...

Diving with another sidemount diver I just do not think about danger of small errors and take excessive caution anymore.
Even if his config looks like a landslide in slow motion, his wing like a butterfly, or there is something else I don't like myself.
My own config looked horrible long enough and often enough still does when I get distracted and accumulate mistakes setting up.

I had divers in perfect config with good training make critical newbie errors and been 'saved' from some of my own mistakes by divers in horrible config, even as horrible and backward as mounting gas on your back.

With a sidemounter I can guess a lot watching him set up his equipment.
Seeing his level of control from the surface to bubble check depth is enough to know his abilities (which will be adequate most of the time).
The only thing left to think of is psychology when you enter difficult environment.

I never interfere when something looks like a problem, I just watch and wait.
Sometimes that might prove a mistake, but most of the time he will get himself sorted out without too much help.
There is not much that can go wrong and most of the time you can learn a lot yourself by watching someone else learning a lesson.

The 'drills' in particular are 'common sense' most of the time. In contrast to backmount you do not have to learn doing anything 'blindly' or complicated.
Anyone can easily master them, if shown correctly a few times and anyone can depend confidently on being able to repeat it in almost any conceivable situation.
 
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Hi Razorista,
Personally I really do appreciate the enthusiasm, it is true SM diving is very intuitive, and a nice and comfortable way of moving through the water.
However, as an Instructor and educator I think you are sending people the wrong message, I think you need some more time and experience in order to make such conclusions.
People still drown on back mount and sidemount and rebreather and there are people out there that can make many SM divers feel ashamed, they can dive almost...I said almost ;-) as cool as on SM.
I have noticed more SM divers thinking in a fundamentalistic manner, reminds me on what the DIR guys did 10 years ago, it is not the way forward and in the end doesn't bring any good to anyone.
After many years of diving BM, than SM for years, I have come to the conclusion that BM and SM aren't that different after all, try a rebreather , that is a whole other ball game.
BM is in the disadvantage due to the zillion bad BM holiday divers and another million bad shorty instructors, that will change in the coming years.
Regards
Mike



There is often a misunderstanding about priorities in the discussions.

It is hard to reach perfection without good training and a lot of experience, quite probably most people would need infinite experience without ever being able to reach perfection.

Survival, however, is perfectly simple and easy in a sidemount config.
Good buoyancy control (or at least adequate) is more or less 'build in'.
Current is not something to fear, but use to your advantage.
Speed and maneuverability will be the best the diver can manage without electric propulsion, even with inadequate fins or without.
Even the hardest entry and exit becomes 'survivable' for anyone: injured, disabled, distracted or healthy.
Overweighting much is rare in sidemount, rarer already with rudimentary training, nearly unthinkable with a good trainer or only a couple of dives experience.
...

Diving with another sidemount diver I just do not think about danger of small errors and take excessive caution anymore.
Even if his config looks like a landslide in slow motion, his wing like a butterfly, or there is something else I don't like myself.
My own config looked horrible long enough and often enough still does when I get distracted and accumulate mistakes setting up.

I had divers in perfect config with good training make critical newbie errors and been 'saved' from some of my own mistakes by divers in horrible config, even as horrible and backward as mounting gas on your back.

With a sidemounter I can guess a lot watching him set up his equipment.
Seeing his level of control from the surface to bubble check depth is enough to know his abilities (which will be adequate most of the time).
The only thing left to think of is psychology when you enter difficult environment.

I never interfere when something looks like a problem, I just watch and wait.
Sometimes that might prove a mistake, but most of the time he will get himself sorted out without too much help.
There is not much that can go wrong and most of the time you can learn a lot yourself by watching someone else learning a lesson.

The 'drills' in particular are 'common sense' most of the time. In contrast to backmount you do not have to learn doing anything 'blindly' or complicated.
Anyone can easily master them, if shown correctly a few times and anyone can depend confidently on being able to repeat it in almost any conceivable situation.
 
...SM divers thinking in a fundamentalistic manner, ...
I notice that too, but mostly directed towards fellow sidemounters.
Some people seem to think this a competition.
After surpassing the perceived skill of anyone in sight some seem to think others could not match that anytime.

Backmount can be done elegantly and save but there is a severe flaw in the basic concept.
It's the 'backpacker misconception', thinking anything would be gained in the water by carrying weight on your back.

Weight on your back is a severe disadvantage however, if you do not swim upside down.
That is compensated by making the rig neutral in the water itself and wrapping yourself into it 'afterwards'.
That still leaves you with mass and drag and the only option is to just power yourself though that with ineffective plank-like fins with legs bent and taking the strain on your hips the whole time.

I have tried BM twice myself in the last thousand dives and have to admit: any movement I have learned sidemount I can repeat backmount now.
In my opinion the skill level translates seamlessly.

The only difference being: On any non trivial equipment failure in backmount you either abort or die, in sidemount you just make a sour face and go on normally (most of the time).

I like this thought experiment (as a thought experiment only):
Let each of the divers select one tool (hammer, crowbar, etc...) and try to disable each others ability to continue the dive by only disabling equipment.
The backmounter would not stand a chance, there would simply not be a contest.
The sidemounter simply could not be attacked effectively even on purpose, the backmounter would just be a sitting duck with a sidemount-gremlin on his back.

At the skill level where it is possible to match sidemount maneuverability it is of course possible to dive backmount.
Sidemount requires less skill however and even with maximum imaginable skill still is a lot more secure than backmount.
In my humble opinion nothing important changes even if the 'gas' is a mechanical or electronic contraption like a rebreather instead of just the hollow pieces of metal I use.
 
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Sidemount gives easier access to a higher generall skill level.
At the moment I am giving away my second set for tryout dives more often than before, because I now trust myself to be in control of the situation.

But I noticed years ago, when I only did that occasionally, that most of the time the diver is a liability before.
Most come to me because they have some problem or another and need help to continue diving.

Not one of them had any problems adapting in seconds.
Most could only be told from a 'Steve B.-level of skill' by experts and by looking at details in the pictures and vids.

There certainly is something that makes sidemount a lot easier to master them backmount.
You can see that in anyone trying with adequate preparation and advice.
 
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Hey Razorista,
With all due respect, what you are saying is just not true and you need more experience in order to make
statements like these, unfortunately things are not like you are describing.
Obviously SM is a bit more streamlined an more intuitive, it is just "nicer" to dive, but let me tell you people don't die
because they are on BM.
Failure points are relative, again people die because of other things and not because they can't feather on BM, or something else that is easier on SM
(You can feather on BM without a problem btw).
I have watched your videos and without wanting to be arrogant I can only say that you are on the very beginning of SM diving and as you said you have dived BM only twice.
Relax man, with time and a bit more experience....blowing bubbles in the end is blowing bubbles..2 tanks on the side,...don't make that huge of a difference.


I notice that too, but mostly directed towards fellow sidemounters.
Some people seem to think this a competition.
After surpassing the perceived skill of anyone in sight some seem to think others could not match that anytime.

Backmount can be done elegantly and save but there is a severe flaw in the basic concept.
It's the 'backpacker misconception', thinking anything would be gained in the water by carrying weight on your back.

Weight on your back is a severe disadvantage however, if you do not swim upside down.
That is compensated by making the rig neutral in the water itself and wrapping yourself into it 'afterwards'.
That still leaves you with mass and drag and the only option is to just power yourself though that with ineffective plank-like fins with legs bent and taking the strain on your hips the whole time.

I have tried BM twice myself in the last thousand dives and have to admit: any movement I have learned sidemount I can repeat backmount now.
In my opinion the skill level translates seamlessly.

The only difference being: On any non trivial equipment failure in backmount you either abort or die, in sidemount you just make a sour face and go on normally (most of the time).

I like this thought experiment (as a thought experiment only):
Let each of the divers select one tool (hammer, crowbar, etc...) and try to disable each others ability to continue the dive by only disabling equipment.
The backmounter would not stand a chance, there would simply not be a contest.
The sidemounter simply could not be attacked effectively even on purpose, the backmounter would just be a sitting duck with a sidemount-gremlin on his back.

At the skill level where it is possible to match sidemount maneuverability it is of course possible to dive backmount.
Sidemount requires less skill however and even with maximum imaginable skill still is a lot more secure than backmount.
In my humble opinion nothing important changes even if the 'gas' is a mechanical or electronic contraption like a rebreather instead of just the hollow pieces of metal I use.
 
...I have watched your videos and without wanting to be arrogant I can only say that you are on the very beginning of SM diving and as you said you have dived BM only twice.
Interesting opinion. :)
'Twice on the last thousand dives' I wrote.
I was also diving backmount before and hated it in hindsight.

And yes, calling someone with more than a thousand sidemount dives a beginner sounds a bit arrogant, that's true :wink:
 
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