Si Tech Dry Glove liners

[dave4868]

I have a question for all the neld winter divers. I made the switch this year to Si Tech Dry gloves. I love the gloves but my hands are still getting cold after about 45 minutes. The yellow fleece liners were ok when the water was in the 40's. When the water reached the 30's I started using 2 pairs of wool glove liners bought from an Army Navy store. These are good, but I still have to work my fingers constantly to generate heat after about 45 minutes.

What are dry glove divers using for liners in the winter around here?

My hands get cold very easily, so for water temps from about 40 to 50*F, I use two pairs of glove liners with my SI TECH drygloves. The first pair is a thinner, but more closely woven, white polypropylene liner. The second pair is the loosely woven yellow liner that comes standard with the SI TECH system. For water temps in the 30's, I use two pair of the yellow liners and the next larger size of the pvc dryglove.

FWIW, here are some things that have helped a wuss like me maintain good hand warmth for up to 90 minutes in water temps down to the low-30's. I've been in the low-30's longer, but at around 90 minutes, my hands begin to get cold and the discomfort quickly increases as blood circulation decreases and then I've got to work my fingers feverishly to avoid numbness.

For me, what really helps is using large enough liners to avoid constriction.

To that same end, I make sure my pvc drygloves are sized to have a roomy fit over whatever liners I’m using. Therefore, I keep several sizes to choose from. The Atlas 660's and Atlas 495's can be purchased cheaply online.

By the way, I bought several pairs of the lighter (white) polypropylene gloves at a fishermen's supply house in Gloucester a few years ago for just $1.12 per pair....

To further improve the fit of the yellow liners, I removed some of the excess material including the leather hem from the wrist area. I used a serger to create a seam as it trimmed (see pic of the trimmed yellow glove below).

For more warmth, I left enough wrist length to be able to fold it double. When doubled over at the wrist, the liner pretty much fills the gap under the ring. I think it's really helpful to keep that area warm, since the arteries there are very close to the surface.

The air equalization tubes help a great deal, too. Like others, I'll be seen keeping my hands raised during a dive to fill the gloves with air. I'll also alternate the hand that might be tasked to grip or carry something.

So, it really just amounts to avoiding constriction and using plenty of insulation under the drygloves.

You might not need to go to such extremes, but there it is.... Good luck! (Pic follows)

Dave C

To avoid constriction as much as possible, I make sure the liners are roomy enough and that the second liner is larger than the first.

 

[petrieps]

Dave, You make an excellent point about constriction. When I'm wearing 2 sets of liners there is some definate constriction and very little room for air to circulate. That and the 2 sets of liners i'm using are the same size.

I'm gonna try going up a size on the 660's and go up a size on 1 set of liners.

The water has been much warmer this year. I would say an average of 5 degrees warmer. My coldest dives this winter have been 37, toasty except for my hands.

 

[w ripley]

I've been fighting cold hands in dry gloves for years. I could probably stock a small glove-liner store with all of the ones I have tried.

Agree, large gloves and large liners.

But what has really worked for me came from a response to a similar post, as yours: Double up on your hood.

Sounds silly at first, but if you're loosing heat thru your head, your hands will be the first things to get cold. Try it: Use the heaviest hood you can, or buy a larger, second hood and wear over the one you've got when going in cold water.

It's made a believer out of me!

 

[dave4868]

Dave, You make an excellent point about constriction. When I'm wearing 2 sets of liners there is some definate constriction and very little room for air to circulate. That and the 2 sets of liners i'm using are the same size.

I'm gonna try going up a size on the 660's and go up a size on 1 set of liners.

The water has been much warmer this year. I would say an average of 5 degrees warmer. My coldest dives this winter have been 37, toasty except for my hands.

Just remember that the 660's have narrow fingers compared to the fat fingers of the 495's which were designed for liners.

I hate to quote myself, but here's a copy from one of my posts on Atlas glove sizing and their actual measurements. It's from the following thread from July 2008:

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/exposure-suits/245798-dry-glove-sizing.html#post3730557

Measurements and relative fit of Atlas 495, 660, and 620 pvc gloves

I use Atlas 495 and 660 with my SI TECH dryglove rings. The Atlas 495 came with the rings. Atlas gloves are also branded as Showa. I did quite a bit of experimenting with sizing and different liners.

The sizing and fit of the 495 is different because they're designed to be used with liners. The fingers are fatter and the circumference across the palm is bigger. The middle finger length is a little shorter than the 660. See measurements below.

For reference, some pics from Seattle Marine.

The Atlas 495:

The Atlas 660:

The Atlas 620:

I haven't used the 620, but my guess is they are sized like the 660, although the pic shows somewhat fatter fingers. They reportedly have a thinner coating of pvc to make them more supple.

The 495 and 660 are both "triple-dipped" pvc for greater oil resistance, so they are also more resistant to cuts and punctures, I believe.

Seattle Marine's Atlas glove page:

Seattle Marine - Boating and Fishing Supplies - Seattle Marine

Here's some info including measurements I've just taken:

My hand measures 8" circumference (across the palm at the first knuckle) and 3 and 3/8" middle finger length (from between the middle and ring fingers to the end of the middle finger). My fingers are probably average thickness.

For warmth, I like my glove fit to be loose, so I wear the size Large 495. That will accomodate the yellow liner with plenty of room. I like the fit. I use that glove and liner for water temps from 45 to 70F.

It's roomy enough to accomodate wearing two sets of liners, such as the yellow liner with a lighter white polypropylene liner. I paid $1.12 a pair for them at a fishermen's supply house in Gloucester, MA. Similar to this:



Here are my measurements of my Atlas gloves (circumference and middle finger measured as above):

Model/Size ..... Palm Circ ....... Middle Finger Length (all measurements in inches)

495 L ............... 10 ....................... 3

495 XL ............. 10 3/4 .................. 3 1/2

660 L ................ 9 ........................ 3 1/4

660 XL .............. 9 3/16 ................. 3 5/16

660 XXL ............ 9 1/2 ................... 3 3/8

As far as comparing the fit on my hands, the 495 L will accomodate the standard yellow liner with a fit that's moderately loose around the fingers and palm, allowing easy bending of the fingers when gripping.

With that same yellow liner, the 660 XXL is a close fit around the fingers and palm, and, as a result, doesn't allow my fingers to bend as easily, becoming a little too tight when gripping. That only creates a problem in real cold water (sub-40 temps) when gripping something for long periods of time. For temps above 55F, with the lighter white liner, they are a perfect fit.

For mid-30's or below, I actually use the 495 XL with two sets of liners and they fit nicely, that is, loosely, just the way I like it for the added warmth. :d

Dave C​

It's really worth the relatively small cost to have extra gloves of different sizes to match the size of your liners.

I've been fighting cold hands in dry gloves for years. I could probably stock a small glove-liner store with all of the ones I have tried.

Agree, large gloves and large liners.

But what has really worked for me came from a response to a similar post, as yours: Double up on your hood.

Sounds silly at first, but if you're loosing heat thru your head, your hands will be the first things to get cold. Try it: Use the heaviest hood you can, or buy a larger, second hood and wear over the one you've got when going in cold water.

It's made a believer out of me!

Great point! I wear a Henderson ice cap 1/8" neoprene hood under my 7mm hood. The only part of my body that is exposed directly to the water are my lips and they don't get cold because they have such good blood flow. Lips tend to get cold when their blood supply is reduced by constriction of blood vessels in the surrounding tissues. Keep those surrounding tissues warm and the lips will stay warm.

I also made some 2" wide neck bands of 1/8" neoprene to slip over my latex neck seal. I slip on a couple of those for really cold water.

Avoiding tightness in your boots will help, too.

I'm also a firm believer in not losing core heat prior to the dive. When I'm setting up my gear on a cold day I wear a snowmobile suit and balaclava (not my undergarment, as I don't want it damp from sweat). I find it makes a huge difference if I start my dive toasty warm and dry....

Dave C

 

[Peter_C]

But what has really worked for me came from a response to a similar post, as yours: Double up on your hood.

Sounds silly at first, but if you're loosing heat thru your head, your hands will be the first things to get cold. Try it: Use the heaviest hood you can, or buy a larger, second hood and wear over the one you've got when going in cold water.

It's made a believer out of me!

There is a lot of misinformation about loosing heat from your head. Either way keeping your head warm is important. That is why most people I know use a 12mm thick Otter Bay hood. You can search the board for tons of positive reports on their hoods. Put your reg in your mouth when you measure your hood as she is known for making the jaw too tight.

Otter Bay Wetsuits

 

[Parsons]

I bought a pair of them before these Waterproof's and really was impressed with the fit and warmth, but I could only get the first glove on by myself. I needed help with the second one. The wrist is too tight and you can't get a grip with the other glove to pull them on. That's why I like the zipper. When the water gets a little warmer I'll put the dry gloves on. Have a good dive on Monday --- tomorrow the viz is going to be a little iffy with the forecast of a Nly wind.

The first time I've heard " When the water gets a little warmer I will put my dry gloves back on." Well we know you are not a dry glove salesman. Excellant!

 

[porgyhunter]

Got a pair of Hederson "gold" wet mits years ago...been under ice with um....no probs.....but like all the rest of these cold water gloves...almost impossible to get on!!!!

 

[oldflounder]

" When the water gets a little warmer I will put my dry gloves back on."

It's about manual dexterity. I am learning to wear a full face mask this winter and I need to be able to adjust the straps in the water and to replace the ambient air valve plug. I can't do it with thick liners on. When the water gets back up into the upper 50's I'll just need a thin pair of liners under the dry gloves and I probably won't be using the ffm.

 

[Parsons]

It's about manual dexterity. I am learning to wear a full face mask this winter and I need to be able to adjust the straps in the water and to replace the ambient air valve plug. I can't do it with thick liners on. When the water gets back up into the upper 50's I'll just need a thin pair of liners under the dry gloves and I probably won't be using the ffm.

I know what you mean. I picked some glove liners from forth element that can be worn under my present liner at the dive show this year. I hope it helps in dexterity and warmth. The rep from forth element was making some big statments about them. So we will see.