Show some respect... bug hunters at Casino Point

[Leejnd]

I'm with Ken and Dr. Bill on this one. The dive park is different...it just is. I'm a hunter - I LOVE bug hunting, and I particularly love eating them! But I see the dive park as something very different from the rest of the entire SoCal diving region. It's a place that many people do their very first dives...and many people travel from around the world to dive there. I do feel that it should be reserved for "seeing", not hunting. It should represent the best that SoCal diving has to offer. It should be our showcase. And hunting in there will spoil that.

Having dived in many areas that ARE marine reserves, I have seen for myself the difference in marine life between the reserves and open hunting ground. I was actually stunned (and dismayed) to learn that the dive park isn't one. I do hope it becomes one. And until it does, I hope that people will continue to respect the intent and specialness of the park.

Rainer, I do understand your point, but I disagree. Also, about the "threats of violence", I don't think anybody, including you, actually thinks that Dr. Bill was truly promoting violence against hunters. We've all said things like that in jest. Hell, the other day I threatened my teenage son with a painful, violent death if he gave me any more crap. I even posted it on Facebook. (Difference is, I MEAN it!)

 

[ligersandtions]

While I don't hunt in the dive park (hell, I don't hunt at all), I can't say I particularly fault anyone for doing so. Sure, I love the fact that most of the fish and lobsters around there aren't totally skittish around divers....but that doesn't mean that someone who is legally allowed to hunt in the dive park should be scorned, threatened, or harmed.

If the park is added to the MLPA, it becomes a different story. If the park is protected, regulations should be enforced (no, not by harming or threatening others....but maybe a quick chat or a call to DFG)....of course, that brings up another point -- with as few DFG employees we have around here, it's going to be damn near impossible to enforce. I still wouldn't condone physical violence against someone for hunting, in that case....but of course, that's my opinion as a non-violent, passive person

Dr. Bill, I understand your original post if you were commenting about people pulling off the antannae or leaving the carapaces behind, when this is against the regulations....or for possessing more than seven (including the ones in the freezer at home). But if you were specifically saying that people are being rude/disrespectful for hunting in the park, I have to disagree. While it's not something I would do (nor is it something any of the people I dive with would do), I can't see how it's different than hunting at some location outside of the dive park....on Catalina, any of the Channel Islands, or on the mainland....given it is not in a protected area.

Sure, the dive park is "different", "special" to divers....but the laws don't seem to think the same, so I'm not going to tell someone how they can and cannot behave.

 

[Leejnd]

...as a non-violent, passive person

That's only because you don't have teenagers yet!

Just kidding, of course. Sort of. (Can you tell I'm having parental challenges lately?)

Anyway, I think all that most of us are saying, Nicole, is that we wish people WOULD see the dive park as "different" from the rest of Catalina, the Channel Islands, and the mainland. It's the *Dive Park*. We would like to see it be treated as a showcase of SoCal diving. We don't want to see it become another urchin barren. And that is the risk, if unfettered hunting in there happens.

No, the laws don't prevent it. In fact, nothing prevents it except, we HOPE, respect for the specialness of the park.

We can't make people have that respect. But we can talk to people and ASK them to have it. I wouldn't "tell" people not to hunt in there, but I would definitely "ask" them...which is exactly what Ken explained that he and Claudette have done. Kudos to them...and kudos to the people who understood, and let their catch go.

There are just SO many places for hunters. Why do they have to hunt there, in that one special little spot that should be left in its pristine state (as much as possible, anyway, given the dive traffic that it sees)?

We can't demand. We can only ask. So Dr. Bill, Ken, I, and others are asking. (The threats of violence really are not serious...I swear! And I told my son that too! Which is why he's been hiding out in his bedroom lately... )

 

[merxlin]

I have to agree with the non-hunting faction inside the dive park. But let's look at it from a non-hunting perspective. Lets say you take the family on a vacation to Yellowstone and all they want to do is see a moose up close. Moose have been coming into the park for years and congregating in particular spots so you are pretty convinced that you will see them. Except when you go, they are not there. Seems people have been scaring them away. The people didn't like the way they held up traffic or all the people they attracted. So they legally got them to leave, depriving all the people who came to see them of doing that. It's legal, but is it right?

How about you save up all your money to go to a concert/show to see someone you really like and find out it's their final tour. The people in front of you, much larger than you, stand up, block your view completely and sing through the entire show to the point you can barely hear. They paid for their seats, nothing illegal in their actions, but is it right?

IMO When legality overcomes common sense and courtesy, no one's life is any better for it.

"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both." Dwight David Eisenhower

 

[Teamcasa]

Most of us that dive the park regularly find the thought of hunting in it abhorrent, despite the legality of it.

We should make an effort to propose that the park be given a no-take status. I know I will.

California Department of Fish & Game, Marine Region
CONTACT INFORMATION
Main Office: 20 Lower Ragsdale Drive, Suite 100
Monterey, CA 93940

Information: (831) 649-2870,
AskMarine@dfg.ca.gov

Regional Manager:
Marija Vojkovich

Executive Secretary:
Sherrie Vicario
(562) 342-7107

 

[MaxBottomtime]

In the 1970s abalone stocks were diminishing so much in Palos Verdes that instructors, dive clubs and most of the local scuba and free divers came to a "Gemtlemen's Agreement" not to take abalone from P.V. This did not stop a few who took them legally and illegally. Abalone are now a rare sight around the hill. It doesn't take many to wipe out a small area.
Casino Point is like a neighborhood park where new and experienced divers alike go to make easy, relaxing dives. Taking any game there would be like shooting deer in a county park. Sure, it's legal, but how much skill does it take to grab a bug in a park?

 

[ScubaDan3]

I am a new diver, hell you can count my dives on two hands. My very first dives were in that park. I was able to see some really awesome stuff, but also not so awesome stuff. One thing I saw was a dead bug, (this was in AUG) Tail ripped off just lying there. I agree with Dr. Bill on this one. You should not be able to hunt in the park at all EVER. I was taught right by my instructor. You take nothing from the dive park but pictures so other divers can see what you saw. I hope one day that DFG will be more in force there. Dr. Bill is a doctor there studying life underwater. Until you have a PHD in marine Biology, I really think you should listen to him xstephenx. That is his House, I think he might have the most dives in that park then anyone of us. If he says it, it might as well as be law. He doesn't know everything, but pretty damn close.

 

[The Chairman]

As an avid outdoorsman, I know that it's legal for me to poop anywhere in the woods that I like. Ethics tells me to stay 1000 ft away from any water way and to avoid that spot right behind my buddy's tent. Yes, yes, I also dig a cat hole and follow "Leave no Trace" principles... and that's the real issue here: preservation. Not enforced by law, but by our desire to preserve a little bit of sanity.

I have been to the park twice now and have as yet to dive it. Yet, I really enjoyed hearing about the giant sea bass, the flamboyant garibaldi, as well as a host of other creatures who seek a bit of refuge in the park.

If you don't feel the same passion as some of the other posters do about at least one dive site, then I feel kind of sorry for you. I know that I would get pretty angry if I saw someone hunting at the Blue Heron Bridge here in Florida. It's just not called for.

So think about stinking up your own back yard. Sure you can poop there legally, but it just doesn't make any sense.

Kudos to you Dr Bill: the Lorax of the Kelp Garden. Let me know if I can assist you in anyway to make that preserve a reality.

 

[D_B]

.. I grew up with hunting ... hunting in the park is not hunting ..
People that hunt in the park, do so not because it's legal, they do it because it's too easy

go ahead, try to convince us that you need to hunt there

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Once the protections become law I certainly will be happy to make a citizen's arrest.

Just remember, you have just as much power as a citizen as a sworn peace officer to make an arrest. The only thing they can do that you can't is arrest for a misdemeanor based on probable cause, you have to actually witness the crime to make an arrest.

Hell, I'll even make a special trip down there just to do my duty and do a few patrol rounds, sounds fun. I like to hunt too but this time the game would be wearing a scuba and carrying a speargun and a game bag.