Should Padi OW be called Resort Diver?

[chrpai]

Agreed... money is an issue. It's taken me 22 years to get the qualifications I now possess. I've seen other people throw down their credit cards and reach the same levels in 12 months. Go figure who's the better diver for it...

That's pretty ironic coming from a person who makes their money from people like that.

 

[DCBC]

That's pretty ironic coming from a person who makes their money from people like that.

Ya gotta love a truthful answer...

 

[chrpai]

I do. A man has to make a living.

 

[DevonDiver]

That's pretty ironic coming from a person who makes their money from people like that.

I actively discourage it, even if that costs me money/income. That said, I have the 'luxury' of dealing only with technical and specialist training.

Performance based training is just that - so I don't take bookings for multiple courses (at tech level). Too much chance of an individual hitting a limit (requires experience to ingrain etc). Course #1 can be secured, but further training remains flexible - progression if warranted, or diving for experience/remedial work if that's called for. Also, every course starts with an assessment - so where people have done a fast-track, they've got to meet a standard to move forwards. Those who've taken multiple courses in rapid succession without much reinforcement/ingraining non-course experience do tend to struggle on those assessments.

My pre-course communication spells that out clearly (website, learning agreement and email discussion). I do believe my policy costs me bookings - but I accept that those who'd be turned off by the policy probably aren't students I'd really enjoy teaching.

I'd be a lot more financially stable if I compromised on that, trust me.

But then, hey, if money was what I cared about, I wouldn't be teaching diving in the first place...

 

[gekodivebali]

I for one wish a timepiece of any sort became part of the basic equipment in the general standards...

 

[DCBC]

I for one wish a timepiece of any sort became part of the basic equipment in the general standards...

I agree. Just wanted to say that you have a great diving location (although it's been a few years since I frequented the Tulamben drop-off).

 

[Peter Guy]

DCBC asked

If your certification reflected that you had to dive in supervised conditions, what would prevent you from diving unsupervised?

Wayne, as you know, this is really the crux of the issue (at least I think it is, you may not!). Anyway, indeed, what prevents people from diving beyond their skill level?

NOTHING does except their own good sense -- and if they don't have that, Darwin here they might come.

BUT, it isn't just the novice divers that end up Darwin candidates.

What stops the "Green Skier" from doing Black runs? As long as they have an All Lift Pass, nothing does except their own sense of mortality perhaps. What stops any diver from going beyond their training and/or comfort level?

Andy -- I honestly have zero desire to watch or be involved in one of those "dive training sausage factories" you describe -- even though I may well have seen one or two "graduates" of that type of "training" last week. If the graduates understand that their "training" is minimal (and really, how can they not!!), then, OK, do a reef dive with your hand held by a DM and have a great time while you are at it. Why isn't that OK? Why can't we believe these "graduates" will know they have minimal skills and must do minimal dives? Or is it your point that their instructors try to convince them they are now "qualified" to "dive anywhere under any conditions?"

In my original technical training, my instructor was very open and told me (us) he thought we understood our limitations but to "go out and learn" (actually he said, "go dive and get your a$$es handed to you!"). My Cavern/Intro to Cave instructor told me (us) he was sure we understood our limitations so go out and dive and learn.

Does any instructor (perhaps with the exception of DCBC ) tell his students that at the end of their class they are ready to go dive anywhere at any time as opposed to take it slow and grow?

 

[RJP]

If the graduates understand that their "training" is minimal, and really, how can they not!!?

How could they possibly know that their training is minimal? What is their comparator? They have one data point - their own training class. They took that class at a genuine "dive center" from a genuine "scuba instructor." In their minds, they received genuine training. How is the vacation OW noob to know whether he did - or did not - get his training at the Harvard of dive training?

 

[drrich2]

If your certification reflected that you had to dive in supervised conditions, what would prevent you from diving unsupervised? Considering you don't need to have a certification card at all to dive, it's not an issue.

If you live near a good shore diving site, can use your own boat to access reefs, or own your own quarry, that may be true.

For a lot of people, decent dive conditions only exist at a local scuba quarry and the dive shop demands certification as a condition of air fills (which a scuba diver cert. holder could likely get) and dive there (not so much). And a lot of non-quarry diving is done from professional charter boat op.s who 'police' certification.

So denying people full OW cert. does limit them in a number of ways, whether they want to be limited or not.

Richard.

 

[DCBC]

Wayne, as you know, this is really the crux of the issue (at least I think it is, you may not!). Anyway, indeed, what prevents people from diving beyond their skill level? NOTHING does except their own good sense -- and if they don't have that, Darwin here they might come.

Perhaps that's why some instructors can feel they've taught them how to dive (with minimal training) that suggests the Diver is OK to dive unsupervised.

In my original technical training, my instructor was very open and told me (us) he thought we understood our limitations but to "go out and learn" (actually he said, "go dive and get your a$$es handed to you!"). My Cavern/Intro to Cave instructor told me (us) he was sure we understood our limitations so go out and dive and learn.

No Student should be told by their Instructor to "go out and get your a$$es handed to you." The Student can either dive within the safety envelope of the program level or they can't. No one should be certified unless they can. I sure as hell wouldn't certify an Instructor who didn't understand the importance of this concept.

Does any instructor (perhaps with the exception of DCBC ) tell his students that at the end of their class they are ready to go dive anywhere at any time as opposed to take it slow and grow?

Peter, I teach courses from OW to Instructor Trainer, Technical Diver to Technical Instructor Trainer (including Cave, CCR and Advanced Trimix). If I could "tell my students that at the end of their class they are ready to go dive anywhere at any time as opposed to take it slow and grow," Why would I teach more than one program?

You continue to misrepresent things that you know nothing about. You have NO idea what I tell my students; so don't pretend that you do. Please, think about what you are about to say before you say it. If you do, prepare to back-up with facts, not inaccurate opinion.

---------- Post added May 18th, 2013 at 05:55 PM ----------

So denying people full OW cert. does limit them in a number of ways, whether they want to be limited or not.

Richard, they either know how to dive unsupervised, or they don't. What's the matter with that? If you certify them to dive unsupervised, they should be able to do this safely. If not, what is it that you're suggesting?