Should new divers be exposed to controversial views?
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ktownhero
Contributor
I'm a new diver, and I was completely turned off by that thread. Mind you, I'm not turned off from diving, I'm turned off by the community. Just like everything else, politics and false senses of moral superiority apparently plague diving communities as well.
But I'm a smart enough person, I read that thread and learned from it. I took away from it the seriousness of diving, and how important it is to understand and plan your dives. I ignored 95% of everything else in that thread because it's mainly people looking for scape goats or an opportunity to vent their personal beef with PADI or other organizations/people.
I don't have time for that crap.
But I'm a smart enough person, I read that thread and learned from it. I took away from it the seriousness of diving, and how important it is to understand and plan your dives. I ignored 95% of everything else in that thread because it's mainly people looking for scape goats or an opportunity to vent their personal beef with PADI or other organizations/people.
I don't have time for that crap.
There is a very nice example of what I am talking about in this very forum right now.
A potential diver solicited opinons about training agencies, a very controversial topic. The OP then got a wide variety of helpful opinions. People we know to be pretty passionate from other forums kept their responses reasonably objective.
In contrast, what we did not see is someone with a strong opinion starting an unsolicited thread preaching a particular controversial point of view leading to an acrid and tired debate which in turn leads to the repulsed response from new divers you see above.
A potential diver solicited opinons about training agencies, a very controversial topic. The OP then got a wide variety of helpful opinions. People we know to be pretty passionate from other forums kept their responses reasonably objective.
In contrast, what we did not see is someone with a strong opinion starting an unsolicited thread preaching a particular controversial point of view leading to an acrid and tired debate which in turn leads to the repulsed response from new divers you see above.
Assuming they have the maturity and intelligence to evaluate the sides, and they are presented in an objective fashion, certainly. I remember when I raised a few issues with my instructor when I finally got certified after 8 years of diving. His response was to put me on all fours and kick me in the ass... don't think, do what I tell you to do. He was an ex-Marine and with the exception of that he was a great instructor!
Should new divers be exposed to controversial views?
Yes. Many local dive shops (in my opinion) deliberately only convey information about techniques, procedures, and equipment that are conducive to encouraging fledgling divers to continue to suckle off the teet of said shop by purchasing cards and gear. This board helps to mitigate that misinformation, by allowing any diver to stop by here, ask a question, and receive a range of answers from a range of sources. The sources on this board are geographically and personally diverse, so the diver receives a broad breadth of information.
The only beef I have with this board is that there are some things espoused (generally) on here by a majority of members that many people (around here in GA at least) feel are not really of much concern. They are:
-Everyone needs a BP/W.
-Everyone needs a longhose.
-Split fins will kill you.
-If you act in the capacity of a mentor, then you are impersonating a scuba instructor.
These are not statements of fact, but those are some of our "hot button" issues. I feel that your average diver would never encounter these sentiments, or at least not in Florida or Georgia. I've dove all of the place here, and never once did anyone give a rat's rear end what style of fins I wore, what kind of BC I had, or how long any of my hoses were. I've seen divemasters with ratty brown old jacket BCs and splits (Flipper at Dive locker who is an AMAZING diver), and guys with full tech rigs (Ralph at Zero Gravity). Not one of those people cared what I was wearing, they cared that I could dive. I just hope divers do not get turned off by the collective arguing here, because it is not indicative of diving as a whole.
So I guess the short version is....yes, but maybe we need to be more relaxed about it. We are divers after all, we are supposed to be a motley, colorful, and vibrant lot. We need to not lose that in the text on these forums.
Yes. Many local dive shops (in my opinion) deliberately only convey information about techniques, procedures, and equipment that are conducive to encouraging fledgling divers to continue to suckle off the teet of said shop by purchasing cards and gear. This board helps to mitigate that misinformation, by allowing any diver to stop by here, ask a question, and receive a range of answers from a range of sources. The sources on this board are geographically and personally diverse, so the diver receives a broad breadth of information.
The only beef I have with this board is that there are some things espoused (generally) on here by a majority of members that many people (around here in GA at least) feel are not really of much concern. They are:
-Everyone needs a BP/W.
-Everyone needs a longhose.
-Split fins will kill you.
-If you act in the capacity of a mentor, then you are impersonating a scuba instructor.
These are not statements of fact, but those are some of our "hot button" issues. I feel that your average diver would never encounter these sentiments, or at least not in Florida or Georgia. I've dove all of the place here, and never once did anyone give a rat's rear end what style of fins I wore, what kind of BC I had, or how long any of my hoses were. I've seen divemasters with ratty brown old jacket BCs and splits (Flipper at Dive locker who is an AMAZING diver), and guys with full tech rigs (Ralph at Zero Gravity). Not one of those people cared what I was wearing, they cared that I could dive. I just hope divers do not get turned off by the collective arguing here, because it is not indicative of diving as a whole.
So I guess the short version is....yes, but maybe we need to be more relaxed about it. We are divers after all, we are supposed to be a motley, colorful, and vibrant lot. We need to not lose that in the text on these forums.
Last edited:
Blackwood
Contributor
I spend an embarrassing amount of time reading these boards, and in my experience, none of 'views' are held by the majority. I'd be willing to bet that the majority of members who own their own BD have jacket or vest-style, not backplate/wing style, that the majority don't use long hoses (5+ feet), and that quite a sizable percentage use split fins. Further, if there is any consensus on the mentorship issue, it's that diving with a mentor is at least as valuable as traditional instruction.
These polls are one of the ways that I draw my conclusions about the board:
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/bu...ight-systems/206927-bp-w-streamlined-bcd.html
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/re...-dive-7-regulator-hose-single-tank-setup.html
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/basic-scuba-discussions/31934-poll-dir-vs-non-dir-vs-undecided.html
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/technical-diving-specialties/39422-you-dir-like-diver.html
Marc, I am aware of the flaws in citing polls, especially ones with low response rates. I do feel that these indicate a sort of general trend though. If you feel that the opposite is true, I both respect and support that point of view.
R
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/bu...ight-systems/206927-bp-w-streamlined-bcd.html
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/re...-dive-7-regulator-hose-single-tank-setup.html
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/basic-scuba-discussions/31934-poll-dir-vs-non-dir-vs-undecided.html
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/technical-diving-specialties/39422-you-dir-like-diver.html
Marc, I am aware of the flaws in citing polls, especially ones with low response rates. I do feel that these indicate a sort of general trend though. If you feel that the opposite is true, I both respect and support that point of view.
R
Blackwood
Contributor
Well, the first poll is specifically asking which "BP/W or 'streamlined BCD'" people are using, and thus those who don't use either BP/W or 'streamlined BCDs' wouldn't (shouldn't) be responding.
The results of the second (hose length) surprises me (especially if it's representative of SB as a whole). Given my own observations, it's certainly not representative of divers in general. And of course people using them doesn't equate to people suggesting that others need them.
Not sure how the other polls relate to your post.
Slonda828:
I've never even heard of that one before. Where did you run across it?
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It was in one of the Basic Discussions threads not too long ago. I'm not going to waste my time searchng for it, but someone (an instructor, I believe) asserted that only a certified instructor should try to teach a diver anything. Then someone else trotted out the liability arguments.
The usual silliness ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
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