Should new divers be exposed to controversial views?

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Should new divers be exposed to controversial views
I'll put this in a different framework.

Question: Should young students in public school science classrooms be exposed to the "controversy" concerning evolution and be presented with alternative ideas?

Answer: No (sorry, Kansas, Georgia, Texas, et. al.). Because there is no raging controversy among SCIENTISTS - the CREATORS OF SCIENCE. The "controversy" is purely political, and has been manufactured by non-scientists who want to re-define the concept of "science" for the purpose of promoting their religious views.

So - bringing that to diving....just because someone has a different idea does not mean there is a controversy. Even if someone is able to convince 100 of his closest buddies, it doesn't become a controversy. The "sides" in a controversy need an organized body of evidence, that has at least the plausibility of some truth to it, that can be used to create a rational and logical viewpoint. It is only when two or more such viewpoints compete against one another does a controversy exist.

Aside from that, not all opinions and "sides" of a controversy are equal. The world of facts and figures is not a democracy. There is no "equality" and "political correctness" in the world of nature. Non-scientist opinions about what science is, or what the facts of science are, do and should have much less "weight" to them than scientists. Opinions about how a bridge should be built are much more useful from engineers than they are from floral designers. By the same token, opinions about what constitutes "good diving practices" may vary by individual, but it is not unreasonable to give the most weight to the opinions of the most experience and established divers (which leaves me out). The opinions of the rest of us may have little to no value. It's true. I know people think that way about most of my posts. (: However, as was pointed out earlier, the whole point of an open forum such as SB is to exchange ideas - and ideas are often driven by agendas. There is no sign up and credential verification process, to ensure that the "diving gods" amongst the crowd have their posts emphasized in any way, or to allow only "vetted" divers to post answers to questions people raise. It's up to the reader to sort out the facts from the bull**** in this marketplace of ideas. If the reader is unable to do this - well, too bad for them!

In the ideal world, people could be presented with a variety of information (different bodies of evidence, representing the multitude of "sides" in a controversy), analyze it critically (sort out the facts from the bull****), and come to their own reasonable opinion about an issue. However, the sad fact is, most people (in America at least) lack this ability - largely due to the fact that today's public schools are propaganda machines, designed to create happy little taxpayers who do what their government tells them to, rather than teaching people to think - and think for themselves.

So, we have a large segment of the population that must be spoonfed information that they just have to take on faith, for better or worse. At least one diving cert agency I am familiar with seems to have accepted this and appears to have developed its training materials accordingly. Should this agency's students be exposed to alternative ideas and controversies? On one hand, more information usually seems like a good idea. On the other hand, most people don't know what to do with the information they have and are hardly capable of analyzing and making use of competing information. Why confuse them? Just tell them what to think and what to do, and don't fight "the man". It's a losing battle.
 
Might be (in your opinion) but new divers are scared of by this.That's the reason we made this forum "NICE and FLAMEFREE"

you Might be (in your opinion) right.

But big whoop. What does that have to do with the subject in hand?
 
Since there is no worldwide consensus on very much in dive theory/philosophy/methodology, by definition most everything you teach is controversial, no?

If you had to leave out ideas that are contested by others, there'd be nothing to teach.
 
All I'm saying is that Tone and content (of a post) are exclusive. Using tone of a message to determine content is a mistake.

Ok. Now I understand what you're saying, but I disagree with you.

I think the more hysterical/aggressive/rude/arrogant/belligerent someone sounds the less likely they are to say anything worth listening to.

R..
 
<snip> On one hand, more information usually seems like a good idea. On the other hand, most people don't know what to do with the information they have and are hardly capable of analyzing and making use of competing information. Why confuse them? Just tell them what to think and what to do, and don't fight "the man". It's a losing battle.

I tend to recoil a bit from statements like this. Just because a diver is new and recently certified does not make them too stupid to analyze and weight information for its value and credibility.

It is all part of the learning process. For most people I know it's just give them the information and they will sort it out. If they have trouble figuring something out, they will just do a little more reasearch.
 
Should new divers be exposed to controversial views?

Absolutely, The only remedy for bad information or ignorance is more and better information.

It's up to the reader to have adequately thick skin not to get offended or upset, and sufficient judgement to cull the wheat from the chaff.

The minute we stop crediting the audience (including newbie divers) with the above, we need to hire thought police. Then the question is who becomes the arbitor of the truth.
 
I tend to recoil a bit from statements like this. Just because a diver is new and recently certified does not make them too stupid to analyze and weight information for its value and credibility.
I wasn't commenting on the ability of new divers specifically. I was talking about products of the American pre-university public education system in general.
 
and who has the right (or qualifications) to judge what should in/out?

You?

All I said was that this forum is not the place for people to push unsolicited opinions on controversial issues. No judgment required. If someone asks a question, go ahead and answer it. I just don't think we ought to be bringing them up here on our own.
 
Let's remind ourselves of the special rules of this forum:

New Divers and Those Considering Diving New to Diving? Have a question about training? Want to find out more about this thrilling activity? Post your questions here for other divers & instructors to help you on your path!
Please note: This forum has special rules. This forum is intended to be a very friendly, "flame free zone" where divers of any skill level may ask questions about basic scuba topics without fear of being accosted. Please show respect and courtesy at all times. Remember that the inquirer is looking for answers that they can understand. This is a learning zone and consequently, any off-topic or overly harsh responses will be removed.

Do we want to add a new category of posts? Do we want to say:

This is also a place for frustrated experienced divers to vent their anger at the existing system and start yet another version of the raging debates that fill many of the other forums.​
 
All I said was that this forum is not the place for people to make push unsolicited opinions on controversial issues. No judgment required. If someone asks a question, go ahead and answer it. I just don't think we ought to be bringing them up here on our own.

I believe you have the intent of this forum correct. It is to be a "learning zone" for someone who would like an answer. It is not a place for someone to preach their position to everyone.

This is a huge board, with lots of areas to do that.
 

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