Should new divers be exposed to controversial views?
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BHB ScubaTroll
Contributor
While nothing from that post was actually controversial, There was a definite mood of cynicism and angst.
What/who determines controversial? There was a time when Nitr0x was controversial, BCs and octos each were controversial (mention snorkel, fin style, rigging style and you still have controversial views)
Simply exposing new divers to controversial views in the diving industry shouldn't stop, and in most cases hasn't stopped. I can't vouch for all certifying agencies, but I know of some (if not all) offer Nitr0x certification with OW certification
Other mixed gases are being exposed to students in their first OW class. They aren't learning to use them, but they are exposed.
Exposing students to dive planning, gas planning and gas management aren't controversial and are being taught to every new diver in their training.
Now, stating SAC calculations are the very heart of gas management, then challenging anyone's experience that believes otherwise and insulting all who have a different opinion... Yeah, I have a problem with that
So, the real question is what do you do when the cynicism and angst start to flow again when others have a different opinion of what is controversial. It was less about controversial and way more about cynicism and angst in that thread.
But, I think you diffused it very nicely
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JeffG
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rstofer
Contributor
No doubt you are correct but it was Lily Tomlin who said:
"No matter how cynical I get, I can't keep up!"
Richard
Well.... to my way of thinking most issues are not black and white, as I said above. I don't know how helpful it is to want to address this in terms of absolutes....
What I think you might be driving at is the idea that a given "norm" that training agencies promote isn't necessarily the best practice. I think there are good examples of that. if this is what you're trying to say then I'll agree with you that a controverial view might not be "wrong" if you put it in that context.
R..
JeffG
Contributor
All I'm saying is that Tone and content (of a post) are exclusive. Using tone of a message to determine content is a mistake.
I raised the issue earlier, and I may have been misunderstood.
Yes, new divers should be exposed to controversial views, and there are plenty of forums were those views are debated to the point of exhaustion.
This particular forum was designed for new divers and those considering diving to have basic questions answered. I think it is great that this exists. I would like to keep it to that purpose.
My concern is when an experienced diver with a controversial position on an issue that no new diver asked about decides to initiate a thread in which that position is posited as if it were a clear and established view of the dive community. This will eventually be followed by page after page of the kind of exchanges Bob described. A reader who is willing to slog through 20 pages of such exhanges may get a balanced idea, but the typical reader new to diving who goes through only the first few posts will leave with the sense that this is how the dive community feels.
In the thread that initiated this discussion, that is exactly what happened. A post on page 3 of the thread corrected information that was presented on the first few pages. On page 22 another poster made a comment that indicated that he had formed a very strong opinion based on those first two pages only, before it became clear that the original position was controversial and long before there were 19 more pages of mind-numbing debate.
Let me give a hypothetical example.
ScubaBoard veterans will recognize that there is a decidedly minority position that CESA should not be taught. This has been brought up in many ScubaBoard forums. In those threads, it is clear that this view is clearly in a very strict minority--the overwhelming majority of the scuba community apparently believes CESA should still be part of diving practice and instruction.
I would hate to see that the anti-CESA point of view raised gratuitously in this forum, presented as important and established information for all new divers, so that all new divers question their instruction. Of course, in time the opposing point of view will come across, but as I showed earlier, many will not get that far in their reading.
Now, if instead a new diver were to write something like, "I have heard people question whether or not CESA should be taught, and I am wondering why," then that would be just fine with me. It is clear from the start that the issue is controversial, and people who do not have a strong knowledge base would not be as likely to take the first post as a fact.
As I said, there are plenty of places for these debates, and new divers should be encouraged to explore them. I just don't think the new divers and those considering diving forum is the place for ideologies to be promoted unsolicited.
Yes, new divers should be exposed to controversial views, and there are plenty of forums were those views are debated to the point of exhaustion.
This particular forum was designed for new divers and those considering diving to have basic questions answered. I think it is great that this exists. I would like to keep it to that purpose.
My concern is when an experienced diver with a controversial position on an issue that no new diver asked about decides to initiate a thread in which that position is posited as if it were a clear and established view of the dive community. This will eventually be followed by page after page of the kind of exchanges Bob described. A reader who is willing to slog through 20 pages of such exhanges may get a balanced idea, but the typical reader new to diving who goes through only the first few posts will leave with the sense that this is how the dive community feels.
In the thread that initiated this discussion, that is exactly what happened. A post on page 3 of the thread corrected information that was presented on the first few pages. On page 22 another poster made a comment that indicated that he had formed a very strong opinion based on those first two pages only, before it became clear that the original position was controversial and long before there were 19 more pages of mind-numbing debate.
Let me give a hypothetical example.
ScubaBoard veterans will recognize that there is a decidedly minority position that CESA should not be taught. This has been brought up in many ScubaBoard forums. In those threads, it is clear that this view is clearly in a very strict minority--the overwhelming majority of the scuba community apparently believes CESA should still be part of diving practice and instruction.
I would hate to see that the anti-CESA point of view raised gratuitously in this forum, presented as important and established information for all new divers, so that all new divers question their instruction. Of course, in time the opposing point of view will come across, but as I showed earlier, many will not get that far in their reading.
Now, if instead a new diver were to write something like, "I have heard people question whether or not CESA should be taught, and I am wondering why," then that would be just fine with me. It is clear from the start that the issue is controversial, and people who do not have a strong knowledge base would not be as likely to take the first post as a fact.
As I said, there are plenty of places for these debates, and new divers should be encouraged to explore them. I just don't think the new divers and those considering diving forum is the place for ideologies to be promoted unsolicited.
JeffG
Contributor
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