Should Instructors be teaching with Air II (or similar) Alternates?

[spectrum]

Students should be exposed to the real world variety so I see no problem with having a variety of configurations at play. That's the way it is and it gives good purpose to pre-dive briefing training.

We are adaptive human beings, not dogs doing "stupid pet tricks" on Letterman.

This stands part from the safety and desirability of an octo/inflater.

Pete

 

[El Orans]

And looking at 300bar's posting about those who insist that you're getting their Air2, that smacks of a diver who is too unsure of themselves to make a reg switch. I'd be looking for a new buddy. That diver is very likely either out of practice, or is fundamentally unsound.

The last Air2 user who told me so was an instructor...

 

[scubamama5]

Firm believer students using rental gear be taught the basic use of equipment, meaning no upgraded accessories..like butt dumps, pull dumps..hip inflators..air II's..weight integration. I dress the same (for pool) as the students...if they have upgraded personal gear, we use it.. have both standard and upgrades myself. It's up to us to keep these newbies safe..
Had a huge class of referrals, this spring break who had never used traditional gear...only used Air II's...only knew weight integration.
None had their own equipment.. "How come the regs have 2 second stages?"..Why can't I breathe off my deflator? (They were told they didn't have do anymore pool work) Surprise..You do!
Was doing a Deep class last fall when the father (a DM) wanted to come along...he had a new set of gear...with all the upgrades.. just for jollies I asked him how he would share air...he would share his AirII...right!
Thanks to all for letting me vent.
Stay safe

 

[Isaac-1]

Firm believer students using rental gear be taught the basic use of equipment, meaning no upgraded accessories..like butt dumps, pull dumps..hip inflators..air II's..weight integration. I dress the same (for pool) as the students...
Stay safe

Is the Air II and its cousins really that rare to find in rental/student gear? It seems to me that most Scubapro dealers that I have dealt with over the years include the Air II as a standard part of their rental/student gear. I can see how this may be less of a case with other brands that have a stronger history of using a standard inflator.

Ike

p.s. there is something I don't understand about your statement, at first you seem to say the AIR II is a complication that should not be taught to OW students, then later you talk about a DM that was not taught the propper use of an AIR II, where in the training sequence (AOW, Rescue, DM, etc.) would you place training to use alternative alternate air sources (not just Air II, but other hot topics like Spare Air, etc.)?

 

[Pearldiver07]

The last Air2 user who told me so was an instructor...

Doesn't say much for that instructor, now does it?

 

[NadMat]

The last Air2 user who told me so was an instructor...

Well, I guess if that was his plan, then for your and his dives I guess that is what you'll need to do.

Only reason I can think of for me to donate my AirSource alternate rather than my primary is if we found out during predive that you cannot deal with the seacure mouthpiece on my primary. I prefer to keep control of my inflater hose assembly and not have someone accidently pressing inflate on it. The inflater hose is also a little short for an air share, although it can be done.

If you come out and dive with this DIMWIT, you'll be instructed to use my primary for air share, unless you have issues with my seacure( at which point I may just swap to standard mouthpiece on primary provided I have 'extras' bag with me at dive site).

As to the OP, I think exposing new divers to possible different configuration during their training is a good thing. Of course, I still believe that buddy breathing should also be taught, and feel that buoyancy would be better learned without power inflation. In my classes, octos for air share and power inflation for bc's were the 'new' things

JMHO, YMMV

 

[charlesml3]

Doesn't say much for that instructor, now does it?

Actually that says more about you than him. I don't think it says anything either way about that instructor. Your response says you have some issue with octo-inflators.

Issue or not, they're here and only gaining popularity. A good instructor will demonstrate the octo-inflator and a traditional octo because the diver may never know what they'll encounter on a dive. The purpose here is to trains students properly so they'll know what to expect on a dive.

I was in a dive shop a few months ago and listened to an instructor tell a group of students why they should never do Nitrox. "You have to do all that analyzing" and yes, no lie.... he used the term "Devil Gas." I couldn't believe anyone was still holding onto that nonsense.

-Charles

 

[24940]

Given two options, one being donate the primary and the other to donate an AIRII, it does say a lot about the instructor who would teach the more difficult, less common way. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to donate the AIRII, regardless of how you feel about them.

Two systems, one has serious shortcomings. I can accept people using these systems, but making it more difficult than it needs to be is just ignorant.

Of course, I'm always open to opposing views, so please share why you feel donating an airII type secondary is acceptable.

I think his post indicated he had an issue with donating the airII.

Actually that says more about you than him. I don't think it says anything either way about that instructor. Your response says you have some issue with octo-inflators.

Issue or not, they're here and only gaining popularity. A good instructor will demonstrate the octo-inflator and a traditional octo because the diver may never know what they'll encounter on a dive. The purpose here is to trains students properly so they'll know what to expect on a dive.

I was in a dive shop a few months ago and listened to an instructor tell a group of students why they should never do Nitrox. "You have to do all that analyzing" and yes, no lie.... he used the term "Devil Gas." I couldn't believe anyone was still holding onto that nonsense.

-Charles

 

[Lead_carrier]

If this was the case,I would not have any problems with them.But I've done (more then I like)a buddycheck,where the owner of the AIRII or whatever,told me I was getting his/her AIRII in a OOA. Eversince, I don't trust their users.

Maybe you should just not trust that diver.

 

[300bar]

Maybe you should just not trust that diver.

And that is just what I did,but whenever I get a buddy with a simular setup,I do a more intense predive buddytalk.

And I do tell my students to do the same