Should I Get A Longer Primary Hose When I Also Have A Safe Second?

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I've got 15 dives under my belt and have finally started putting together a collection of my own equipment so I can use it on a Blackbeards trip I'm going on in a few months.. My question has to do with the second stage primary and backup.....

Got myself a used BCD with included Atomic SS1 safe second.
For those of you that have the safe second....if your buddy needs your help, you hand them your primary and switch the the safe second right? Easy enough.

Seems like the hose on my new XTX50 setup is too short. Is it common for people to get longer hoses for the primary when they have that safe second? I haven't measured it, but it seems the XTX50 is about 2 feet, just enough to comfortably go around your head.

Thanks
Murph
 
Yes. Go hop in a pool and try to donate your primary and switch to your SS. How close are you to your buddy? Can you operate your inflator reasonably and dump air? Could you manage this in current in the open ocean?

You might want to try your primary on a 40 inch hose with a swivel and hose routed under your arm.
 
Its been 20+ years since I dove with a 'safe 2nd' I hated it! Had to hold my head at an uncomfortable angle and it just did not feel safe at all.

Now, as DoubleAA mentioned, try it out in a safe OW setting and see if its ok for you. Make sure you can donate comfortably and still be in control of the situation. Keep in mind that you might have to be the 'brain' that's going to save two lives! Can you operate on your 2nd with a stressed out, exhausted diver attached to you? If not, I strongly suggest you find a decent 2nd stage with good LP hose lengths.
 
The "usual" length for a reg that is to be donated would be about 40 inches. That gives enough length to pass the reg while in close face to face contact with the other diver. I might suggest that 40inches might be too short for the under the arm route. YMMV

Make sure with the safe second that you can breathe easily through it without too much discomfort as when faced with an OOA diver the last thing you want is to find you struggle to breathe comfortably and maintain eye contact to calm the person down. You don't want to be stressed yourself.

Some people might suggest the long primary route where the hose is generally either 5ft (for rec) or 7ft. This allows more distance between the divers (7ft originated in cave diving to allow divers to follow in a lead-trail configuration as often side by side is impossible).
 
You might want to try your primary on a 40 inch hose with a swivel and hose routed under your arm.
This. It is an easy fix, a similar set up to those of us that bungee our back up but don't want to use a 7 foot long hose. Get a 36 to 40 inch hose and run it under your right arm. To get the right angle to your mouth, use a swivel or angled adaptor to the regulator.
 
what he said ^ I'm on a 40" miflex with a swivel on the primary. It goes under the arm and once the swivel is adjusted, is very comfortable and stays out of the way. My 2nd is an octoinflator on a very short (12") corrugated inflator hose. If i need it, it's right there similar to a necklaced 2nd. The only issue is it's uncomfortable to breath on until it's freed from the velcro. I have a Dive alert in-line which adds additional bulk but it stays fairly flat and out of the way. If I had to do it over though, I'd be doing a traditional inflator w/ necklaced 2nd. The DIR/GUE/tech folks have rig guidelines for a lot of good reasons. A 7' long hose is a bit much for an OW rec dive IMO but you can't argue the logic behind it
 
A few thoughts:

1. Kudos for recognizing the reality of donating the primary. I have had 3 genuine OOA shares since I started diving in 1985. (About 1 share every 2000 dives - not a high incidence.) One of them was on a technical dive and was a very relaxed and well executed evolution as we both saw the failure and knew the gas share was coming in a few minutes. The other tow were recreational divers who were not even in my team. They were enough out of air and either too far from their buddy to reach them in time, or lacked confidence in their buddy being able to deliver. (There's a downside to being the experienced diver on the boat.) In both cases they just mugged me for the primary with none of the signals, etc that people OW divers are trained to expect. Unless the OOA diver is very close and the buddy very aware and attentive but the time the OOA diver gets to the donor, he or she won't have the time for the niceties of the air share protocol - they are just going to grab the primary right out of your mouth.

2. There have been a few other times when I have donated a long hose primary to another OW diver in cases where it made sense for them to use my gas and conserve their own. For example, a diver who was in the 500 psi range on the wrong side of a boat channel that needed to be crossed at depth before we could ascend and complete the dive. Yes, we could have surfaced and dealt with boats running us down on the surface, but it was very easy to just hand the dive my primary on a long hose and swim normally to the up line top preserve the diver's gas for an independent ascent. A 5', 6', or 7' long hose primary gives you a lot more options than a 36" or 40" octo.

3. You may take some heat on the selection of a SSI, but it works fine for your intended purpose at this point in your diving career - provided the corrugated inflator hose is long enough to enable you to have adequate unrestricted head movement. That in and of itself is a bit of a compromise however as a long corrugated inflator hose has its own set of downsides and you need to ensure that it is cleanly routed, doesn't drag the SS1 in the sand or mud, and doesn't become a little reef wrecking ball. The longer hose also increases the area where it might be located, making it harder to find in an emergency.

And of course, you need to check it by breathing fro it under water on each and every dive to ensure it works, as well as rinsing it thoroughly after every dive. The worst seconds stages I have ever worked on in terms of poor maintenance and condition have always been SS1, Air IIs, etc. Ignore their needs at your own peril.

The other downside of an SS1, Air 2, etc is that they don't breathe as well as a regular second stage and as you get into deeper diving that can become an issue.

You may find over time that an SS1 no longer meets your needs as well as a higher performing second stage on a short hose stored on a bungee necklace where it rests under you chin for quick and easy access after you've donated/been mugged for your long hose primary.

4. Miflex hoses are very torsionally rigid and don't always lay down cleanly. The casing will also eat the skin off the back of your beck in short order if you route it around the back of your neck and are not wearing a hood. They are not much kinder to hoods or dry suit neck seals either. I tried them and based on my experience with them I avoid them. They are a little lighter and more compact for travel but the benefits do not outweigh the negatives.

5. 40" hoses are too short, even for a recreational diver. Yes, you can route one under your arm and use swivel to make it work with a clean configuration, but it's still to short for use as a proper long hose primary. In addition, a 40 inch hose with a swivel or elbow routed under your arm and directly to your mouth is harder to locate and recover if it falls out or gets knocked out of your mouth. If instead you've routed a five foot, six foot or seven foot hose around your neck and it falls out of your mouth, it will usually still be sitting there on your upper chest and is very easy to locate and recover. Worst case, (if you lose it while inverted) the hose will still be across your chest making it easy to pull the second stage back up where you can quickly put it back in your mouth with no search, arm sweeping, etc, required.

6. How long is long enough?

Seven foot hoses are the standard for any technical divers, but it requires a BC with a waist belt into which you can tuck the extra hose (assuming you don't have a can light or proxy for a can light on your waist belt). The routing is straight down from the tank valve to your right side where it loops under the can light or is tucked into the waist belt and then routed across your chest and around your neck to come over right shoulder to your mouth.

A five foot hose works well for most recreational divers as it will route down from the tank valve, under you right arm, across your chest and around your neck coming over your right shoulder to the regulator in your mouth. It's nearly ideal as it routes cleanly even on a jacket style BC with no external waist belt, it routes cleanly around the body, it is easy to fully deploy my just tilting your head forward, and it is still long enough to allow easy swimming side by side, or stacked vertically above and below one another.

A six foot hose is ideal for divers with larger builds whose chest and shoulder dimensions make the extra 12 inches essential for adequate head movement all the way to the left.

7. A 90 degree or 120 degree elbow will keep the final bend much closer to you and present a cleaner configuration, and can add some usable length to the hose, but I don't recommend a swivel as they add more maintenance, more initial cost and more potential for failure of the swivel itself.
 
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Having shared air in situations similar to DA A, I can say that the short hose can be done but adds complication to an unpleasant situation. The 7' is a blessing and much easier to manage. None of those situations were an OOA diver suddenly ripping the reg out of my mouth.

Seems SSI regs get sold by shops to newbies with some kind of great rationalization about streamlining. Those are other divers doing that and frankly it makes me a little sad.
 
Seems SSI regs get sold by shops to newbies with some kind of great rationalization about streamlining. Those are other divers doing that and frankly it makes me a little sad.

Not to mention it's a bit of an irrelevant benefit ... many of those same people selling you on the idea of "streamlining" have neglected to teach you proper trim, or sold you a regulator with a bulky console, or a BCD with no appropriate way to stow that console so that it doesn't dangle while you're diving, or they've sold you an overpriced BCD with a massive air cell that is way more than you will ever need.. Losing a hose is one of those arguments that sounds good in theory, but in practice provides a negligible benefit. If you want to be streamlined, the most important things to do are (a) stay in proper trim while moving, (b) purchase a BCD that fits properly, has an appropriately sized air cell, appropriately positioned D-rings, and allows you to stow your gear so that it doesn't dangle when you're diving, and (c) learn proper finning techniques so as to be able to keep your fins inside your slipstream while kicking. Otherwise, losing that extra hose is a meaningless exercise.

If you want to own an inline safe second, great ... it's a reasonable choice. But keep in mind that when it comes to streamlining, you've way more important things to focus on that'll better help you achieve that objective ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
Yup, longer primary hose on an Angle Adapter or Swivel.
You should aim for 40-44in; that will keep it tucked under your arm without being super long but also giving you enough room to turn your head.

Don't forget to practice dumping air while breathing off the Safe Second. That is equally important.
Practice Dumping your in-line AltAir+Inflator - a Note to Divers
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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