Should agencies back off of Solo?

[Doc Harry]

Errr - pardon? What exactly do lawyers have to do with solo diving? If you do a solo dive and drown yourself, what is the cause of action? And who sues who?

As for the topic: It's been said by others better than I can put it, but: if you want to dive solo, go on & do it. If you think you need a course / cert card / book / long internet discussion on the topic, you shouldn't be diving solo. The agencies are right to discourage it "officially".

Solo diving and lawyers are intimately connected.

Why do you think some dive boat operators won't let people dive solo?

Why do you think dive agencies bash solo diving?

FEAR OF BEING SUED. The deceased family can and will sue everyone involved, from the dive op, to the dive shop, to the dive boat and even other people on the boat who were not involved. The lawyers will poke around and try to find anyone with deep pockets or a hefty liability policy which they can suck dry to make themselves rich.

In actuality is really has nothing to do with solo diving per se. The lawyers will use the opportunity of a solo diver's death to find a way to suck cash from someone else. The lawyers aren't there because they feel badly for the dead guy. The lawyers are there to use someone's death to make money.

If there weren't any lawyers, solo diving would be a non-issue.

Back to the OP's question: Do you think in the future that agencies should stop teaching how evil solo is?

Answer: It won't happen as long as there are lawyers.

 

[Doc Intrepid]

Minor correction, at least regionally, while neither agreeing nor disagreeing with your statements above.

In Virginia and North Carolina, the charter boats I am familiar with will allow divers to dive solo who present solo diving cards. If the diver does not have a solo diving card, they may not dive solo. When I inquired into it, I was told that this is because of insurance policies.

The same thing goes for quarries. If a diver has a solo card, solo diving is fine. Without the card, no solo diving. Its a liability thing.

I got a solo diving card simply to be able to solo dive in compliance with east coast protocols.

But the protocols weren't generated directly by lawyers so much as they were by the insurance industry. (Per my conversations with quarry operators and boat captains.)

FWIW. YMMV.

Doc

 

[eponym]

My solo buddy is dyslexic but still dependable. His name is Tony Pank.

And he suffers from spoonerism, poor chap.



One of the many reasons I like diving in British Columbia is that the charter boat operators don't have the same liability as US-based outfits. They are in essence only water taxis. Solo diving is not uncommon.

And on point to the OP, the SSI open water diver manual describes solo diving and the additional gear, training, and experience necessary to make it safe. The manual admits the reality and does not stoop to scare tactics or bullying.

I remember as a very new diver talking to a divemaster who had just returned from a solo dive at our training site. He told me he enjoyed the freedom and peace of mind of a solo dive after a day of herding us around. He was straight with me, just a newbie, and I really appreciated that.

 

[adurso]

*SNIP*But, knowledge and skills do not produce a C-card. That requires a certification agency and it's instructor.

A C-Card is not necessary to dive.

 

[adurso]

Minor correction, at least regionally, while neither agreeing nor disagreeing with your statements above.

In Virginia and North Carolina, the charter boats I am familiar with will allow divers to dive solo who present solo diving cards. If the diver does not have a solo diving card, they may not dive solo. When I inquired into it, I was told that this is because of insurance policies.

The same thing goes for quarries. If a diver has a solo card, solo diving is fine. Without the card, no solo diving. Its a liability thing.

I got a solo diving card simply to be able to solo dive in compliance with east coast protocols.

But the protocols weren't generated directly by lawyers so much as they were by the insurance industry. (Per my conversations with quarry operators and boat captains.)

FWIW. YMMV.

Doc

I have never been asked for a solo card at the quarries I have gone to, in the same areas you have mentioned. Nor on any of the boats I frequent.

But I am good at not being noticed when I want to be, and the boats I dive from are run by folks I have known for quite some time.

Those setting and retrieving the hooks and tying in are diving solo, are they not?

 

[Doc Intrepid]

A C-Card is not necessary to dive.

That depends on where you want to dive, and who controls your access either to the boat or to the dive site.

If you mean that you don't need a C-card to dive in uncontrolled circumstances, or in a theoretical sense, you're right.

But if you want to dive at specific resorts, or off specific boats, or at specific locations that require C-cards or logs, well...you need a c-card to access some sites.

And as for those tying in or pulling the hook, they're known commodities. I'm referring to cases where the boat captain doesn't know the diver. It certainly may not be required universally. I was careful to state that it was my experience in certain cases.

Regards,

Doc

 

[DaleC]

And he suffers from spoonerism, poor chap.

Turns out he's not dyslexic after all. I came to SB looking to learn about diving and instead found out what spoonerisms are. Bon of a sitch

 

[adurso]

That depends on where you want to dive, and who controls your access either to the boat or to the dive site.

I agree; the card is also necessary for those who lack a compressor for fills and for those who must rent gear.

If you mean that you don't need a C-card to dive in uncontrolled circumstances, or in a theoretical sense, you're right.

Exactly

But if you want to dive at specific resorts, or off specific boats, or at specific locations that require C-cards or logs, well...you need a c-card to access some sites.

The very reason I possess a pocketful, though I have never been asked for a log, and rarely for a card

And as for those tying in or pulling the hook, they're known commodities. I'm referring to cases where the boat captain doesn't know the diver. It certainly may not be required universally. I was careful to state that it was my experience in certain cases.

Regards,

Doc

The very act of tying in or pulling the hook provides much potential ammunition for argument, specifically violations of some workplace regs......

I have always felt it easier to comply with mickey mouse regs rather than shout at the tide

If a card is required, a card I shall present.

 

[Doc Intrepid]

"I have always felt it easier to comply with mickey mouse regs rather than shout at the tide...If a card is required, a card I shall present."

You and I reached the exact same conclusions.

Thats why I wound up getting a solo card after being told by some quarry-troll (at a Chilly Willy dive in Millbrook Quarry a few years ago) that without one I couldn't get in the water alone.

It was just easier to get (and show) the darned card than fight about it...

 

[Doc Harry]

I dive in Florida quite a bit. One dive boat allows solo with or w/o a card, the next boat won't allow it all, period, and the next boat allows solo but only with a card.

I got a solo card and it has been helpful but only to a degree.

<Hijack>
Actually, I found a better solution: team up with a couple or pair on the boat and then get "separated" once underwater.
</Hijack>