Shore Diving Maui Dec/Jan - Looking for Buddies!

[KrisB]

I'm not sure why this is sounding like a battle... so I'm just going to clarify a few things:

1. diving without a light on an easy shore dive like Ulua is not going to be much of a challenge for most people, as long as they either have a buddy nearby (with a light) or the moon is big. Anything I'd bring for a backup would have me turning the dive around anyways, if I needed that light to be comfortable. They usually are bright enough, but don't have the duration that you'd need.

2. In general, I would advocate having an extra light amongst the dive group, and turning the dive if it became a primary for anyone. This means that a group of 4 people should have 5 lights.

Finally, as mentioned about the size of a typical backup, if I'm switching to a backup, the dive is ending sooner than later -- we're turning it around, and I'm not too worried about critters... it's now just about safe navigation.

In case you didn't read: I didn't say "when it's a full moon" -- I said if it's close to full. When I checked the calendar, it's still going to be around 3/4's, though the moonrise/set might not coincide with dive times.

One final note: if it's Sean that I'd be relying on buddy diving, I'd make sure it was me packing the spare light for the group, too (Tim knows what I'm referring to)!

 

[TSandM]

Anything I'd bring for a backup would have me turning the dive around anyways, if I needed that light to be comfortable. They usually are bright enough, but don't have the duration that you'd need.

I don't understand this. I have two backup lights. One is a Salvo Rat Jr., and it has a burn time of around five hours. The other is a Dive Rite LED, with a burn time of 50 hours. It's not very bright, but would probably suffice to enjoy a tropical night dive, and certainly would get me home.

I've done tropical night dives with a bunch of 21W Salvos, and with a 10W HID, and with small backup lights (Charlie, remember the Ulua Beach dive?) Frankly, the one I enjoyed the most was probably the one with the little lights. Human eyes adapt enormously to gather light in dark conditions, and small lights don't scare all the nocturnal creatures into hiding.

At night, in Puget Sound, is another matter

 

[Al Mialkovsky]

So Kris you'd dive without a light at Ulua BUT if you had two lights and burned out one you'd have to turn around????

 

[Charlie99]

.. Maybe Moonlight provides enough light to technically navigate the reef, but it seems you(Charlie) still use a light to see the critters underwater...

I vary back and forth between a bright light, a rather dim light, and no light. The dim light has the advantage of illuminating something yet not reducing my night vision too badly. When diving with buddies I also keep a good watch in the light of my buddy, particularly the outer parts of their lightbeams.

I usually show up for night dive with an instabuddy carrying THREE lights since it's common for insta-buddies to not have a backup. I'll keep my main light and just the tiny 2AAA light and loan my 2AA UK Q40 to my buddy as his backup.

-----------

IMO, another important function of lights is for signalling on the surface. While doing Ulua with just 1 light might be acceptable (I don't because there's no reason to do so) IMO doing a boat dive at night with just 1 light is an unreasonable risk. A light is a valuable signalling tool on the surface.
Turning OFF a light for a while is a lot different than not having a light with you.

 

[dbittner]

I always carry 3 lights on a night dive -- the primary (UK C-8 eLED), the secondary (UK SL4 eLED), and a tertiary (UK Mini Q-40 -- just because I always have it in my BCD pocket).

I also would turn a dive if someone lost their primary, just to pre-empt any operation of the Night Divers version of Murphy's Law.

Nevertheless, I have experienced a night dive at Ulua where we were able to leave our lights off for quite a while without any problem. It was on my final dive for the Night Dive specialty (August 15, 2005). I was with Tom Taylor and Aron (from Maui Dreams Dive Co.). As required, we turned off our dive lights for the required time (I think it was 3 minutes). However, the vis. was so good and the moon so bright that we continued the dive for another 10 minutes or so without lights. It's a very special memory I have of a fantastic night dive.

Merry Christmas and Happy New (Dive) Year!
Dave

 

[ScubaSeanMaui]

One final note: if it's Sean that I'd be relying on buddy diving, I'd make sure it was me packing the spare light for the group, too (Tim knows what I'm referring to)!

Hey, Kris is saying I'm a bad dive buddy here... I guess you really understand why your threads are "battles" since you clearly have some secret agenda.

Tim hasn't even posted in this thread, why would you post something that only he knows what you are referring to? Amazing how Kris loves to post 2nd had info like all his boat launch gossip; it never ends. My last night dive with Tim his light was dimming and we left the dive site with his light functioning. I offered Tim my backup light but he didn't take it... So what would you be referring to Kris? I'll bet Tim won't be happy with you referring to some confidential conversation on the board like that.
Please clue us all in since I too am in the dark and I was on the dive...It must be hard being omniscient...

 

[KrisB]

I don't understand this. I have two backup lights. One is a Salvo Rat Jr., and it has a burn time of around five hours. The other is a Dive Rite LED, with a burn time of 50 hours. It's not very bright, but would probably suffice to enjoy a tropical night dive, and certainly would get me home.

I've done tropical night dives with a bunch of 21W Salvos, and with a 10W HID, and with small backup lights (Charlie, remember the Ulua Beach dive?) Frankly, the one I enjoyed the most was probably the one with the little lights. Human eyes adapt enormously to gather light in dark conditions, and small lights don't scare all the nocturnal creatures into hiding.

At night, in Puget Sound, is another matter

I have a UK eLED+ (8 C-cell) that I carry as primary, and a Ikelite PCa (6 AA-cell) that is always in my BC pocket as backup/secondary. The primary has a spec'd burn time of 4 hours (underwater... 10 hours above), the PCa is 2.5 hours... and I don't make a point of putting fresh batteries in it until it starts to dim. So... it might only have 15-30 minutes left if it was switched to... which should be enough to navigate out of Ulua, but not enough to carry on the dive.

My primary gets new batteries every couple of night dives...

So Kris you'd dive without a light at Ulua BUT if you had two lights and burned out one you'd have to turn around????

I don't think I said I'd go without -- I just said the moonlight should be sufficient if necessary. Part of this has to do with whether I'm guiding a dive, diving with reliable buddies, or on what's turned into an SOB dive.

Charlie answered it well:

Turning OFF a light for a while is a lot different than not having a light with you.

IMO, another important function of lights is for signalling on the surface. While doing Ulua with just 1 light might be acceptable (I don't because there's no reason to do so) IMO doing a boat dive at night with just 1 light is an unreasonable risk. A light is a valuable signalling tool on the surface.

Agreed.

 

[ScubaSeanMaui]

I did talk to a Mark from Canada at the BBQ. I'm wondering if that is you? We did see you on the Carthaginian too....

Just curious if you are the same person!

Thanks,

Sean

 

[KrisB]

Hey, Kris is saying I'm a bad dive buddy here... I guess you really understand why your threads are "battles" since you clearly have some secret agenda.

Tim hasn't even posted in this thread, why would you post something that only he knows what you are referring to? Amazing how Kris loves to post 2nd had info like all his boat launch gossip; it never ends. My last night dive with Tim his light was dimming and we left the dive site with his light functioning. I offered Tim my backup light but he didn't take it... So what would you be referring to Kris? I'll bet Tim won't be happy with you referring to some confidential conversation on the board like that.
Please clue us all in since I too am in the dark and I was on the dive...It must be hard being omniscient...

Sean... you missed my point. I said Tim knows what I'm talking about, because he was on the same dive as you and me at Airport when you essentially became a same-ocean-buddy, without once turning around to see both of us staring at you. You were part of the decision to turn back to the exit point because we had reached the air turn-point... in fact, I think it might have even been you that hit it first. As we were headed that way, you swam off in the opposite direction.

I'm not referring to any other situation than that -- I have no knowledge of your other dives with Tim, nor does it matter. Personally, I'm coming back to earlier statements about diving with *many* (though not all) UW photographers: the other parts of the buddy team cannot expect or hope for that diver to be there or available in the case of an emergency. Plan accordingly.

As for other information -- it's interesting to hear that you've decided that anything I might share is second-hand. In most academic situations, second-hand knowledge from reliable sources is more trusted, I wonder why that's not the case here. Perhaps because some of the people arguing have vested interests. Furthermore, I happen to be "around" a lot of the time. I've seen many of the dive professionals I've spoken of deal with others in a very unprofessional manner... though I've also seen some of them be more professional than I could have hoped for.

All I have to say to finish that note: information is either truthful or untruthful. I have not shared a single piece of information here on SB that I knew to be untruthful, nor any that came from untrustworthy sources. If you don't *like* something I say, perhaps because it shows one of your friends in a poor light, then deal with it. The bottom line is that I believe in informed decisions -- that may include sharing information drawn from other peoples' experiences.

 

[ScubaSeanMaui]

Kris, I'm not going to go down that same path with you as happened just a few months ago. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, as invalid, hearsay-based, or plan wrong as it may be.
I'm going to put your handle on ignore so I don't get drawn into these engagements in the future.

Safe and happy diving!

Sean