Shopping for first scuba gear...

[beanojones]

You can very easily attach a corrugated hose with an air2 to an i3 BC. I know multiple people who dive a set up like that.

Yeah I have seen, instructors who feel they need to have the inflator and all for demos.

But for me, that takes away the whole beauty of the design.

 

[Shasta_man]

Then come back to us in six months and tell us what you ended up changing.

 

[beanojones]

nope, you are really saving 7-10.

No, you are really not.

For those of you big guys who do not have to consider how much things actually weigh, and are only worrying about buoyancy in water, it is easy to forget that a stainless backplate is actually VERY heavy. That is why it can replace weight elsewhere. That's weight that is on the diver on the weight belt, integrated weights, or in the backplate or in the tank.

Any way, it is just weight on the diver. It is just shifting the weight around.

The total weight of dive gear dry for a BP/W is much heavier, ignoring the weights. With the weights, it's a push.

Every time this comes up, it seems worth pointing out that for all BP/W strengths, it is far from mainstream for some very good reasons. It's not just some "They don't want you to know you" conspiracy by dive manufacturers to put divers in ineffective gear. And there is the ongoing hidden effect that people 1. dive more and become better divers and 2. sometimes then switch to BP/W, and forget that it is part one that makes them better divers not part two, that always gets lost in people's enthusiasm to act as evangelist for their gear choices.

This evangelizing for BP/W's here at SB always comes across as some sort of Mac/Windows fanboy arguing. The solution to viruses on computers is not "Get a Mac" and the solution to BCD choices is not "Get a BP/W". The solution to any question is always more nuanced.

 

[redacted]

No, you are really not.

For those of you big guys who do not have to consider how much things actually weigh, and are only worrying about buoyancy in water, it is easy to forget that a stainless backplate is actually VERY heavy. That is why it can replace weight elsewhere. That's weight that is on the diver on the weight belt, integrated weights, or in the backplate or in the tank.

Any way, it is just weight on the diver. It is just shifting the weight around.

The total weight of dive gear dry for a BP/W is much heavier, ignoring the weights. With the weights, it's a push.

Every time this comes up, it seems worth pointing out that for all BP/W strengths, it is far from mainstream for some very good reasons. It's not just some "They don't want you to know you" conspiracy by dive manufacturers to put divers in ineffective gear. And there is the ongoing hidden effect that people 1. dive more and become better divers and 2. sometimes then switch to BP/W, and forget that it is part one that makes them better divers not part two, that always gets lost in people's enthusiasm to act as evangelist for their gear choices.

This evangelizing for BP/W's here at SB always comes across as some sort of Mac/Windows fanboy arguing. The solution to viruses on computers is not "Get a Mac" and the solution to BCD choices is not "Get a BP/W". The solution to any question is always more nuanced.

I'll put my travel BP/wing up against any BCD for lowest travel weight. It is an Oxycheq 18# travel wing with their UL plate (heavy cloth). The real point is you probably have a greater range of choices with a BP/wing than with a conventional BCD.

 

[tbone1004]

Beano, show me the math buddy, because you are 100% wrong.

Here's the math
Weight of backplate and wing, ~12lbs total on dry land, and about 10lbs negative in the water. Total weight for 10lbs of negative buoyancy, 12lbs of stuff.

I3, weights 8lbs or whatever it is on land, but is at least 1lb positive, total weight for 10lbs of negative buoyancy, 8lbs of bcd, plus 11lbs of lead = 19lbs of weight on land. Where the hell are you coming up with your numbers because it just doesn't work out. Prove it with math buddy, I've thrown the numbers out, I'm waiting for yours.

The thing under your username that says "lacks common sense" couldn't have hit the nail more square on the head

 

[2cold4california]

Ha poor math

 

[beanojones]

I'll put my travel BP/wing up against any BCD for lowest travel weight. It is an Oxycheq 18# travel wing with their UL plate (heavy cloth). The real point is you probably have a greater range of choices with a BP/wing than with a conventional BCD.

I was talking about the steel BP/W, because ballast. If we are not talking about a Stainless Back plate, then the conversation is just getting silly with parochialism. Remember there is a diver, asking a question, here in the Basic Scuba Forum. New divers tend to love their i3s, and see them as a great solution to lots of problems they themselves recognize as problems**. Let's, together,remember who posted the question and why, instead of trying to win a fight on the internet.

Yeah, there are certainly travel BP/W which are light, but those also do not provide the ballast that a full stainless backplate does. The Kydex travel plates are also feather light. But they are also everything wrong with BP/W (no pockets is the big one for most divers) and they do away with the one dominating reason to use a BP/W : ballast balanced over the lungs.

( that particular travel wing you listed is on odd choice to trumpet "greater range of choices" with. It works with exactly one wing, and no others (according the manufacturer) so there is no great range of choices to that one. The "real point", in this case, is moot.)

Install Linux, problem solved. (That there was a joke. BP/W is a solution in the same way Linux is a solution. It might be the solution for some tiny subset of questions)

** I am not buying an i3 for the reason I have. But it is the most loved BCD I see bought.

 

[bergersau]

Install Linux, problem solved.

Exactly!
Linux is always the correct answer!

 

[FinnMom]

I would definetely switch the console for a depth gauge. Chances are they will do it for free, possibly for a discount. The consoles are big and clunky, if nothing else they tend to get banged somewhere and start to leak. A depth gauge is small, you can change an o-ring if needed and it's cheap to replace the whole gauge if it gives you problems someday.

Do get cold water 1st and 2nd stages, the XTX50 and 40 are both fine, with the other's I'm not so familiar but the Apex website had a table that shows what models of everything are for cold water. I own DS4s, do at least 1/4 of my yearly dives under the ice and have never had a freeflow (well never an undeserved one: don't breath the reg in below zero air before diving).

Find out what kind of suits most folks in your area use. If most folks have drysuits you may not be truely comfortable without one and it would be a shame to spend money on an excellent cold water wetsuit just to discover that it isn't waht you really needed and wanted (I lost money and lots of diving with that mistake).

 

[Mustard Dave]

...But they are also everything wrong with BP/W (no pockets is the big one for most divers) and they do away with the one dominating reason to use a BP/W : ballast balanced over the lungs.

I've never understood the issue with pockets - how much crap do you need to carry? On a simple single tank dive, I'll use my BP&W. Torches clipped to the chest D-rings (held down on the harness with a snoopy loop when not in use), compass on my wrist, computer (X2) on my wrist, knife on the waistband and DSMB clipped to my butt D-ring. If I'm taking my camera, I'll clip it to a D-ring (I've yet to see a BCD pocket that will take a typical compact camera with housing).

If you do have to carry loads of kit, there are other means, such as cargo shorts over a wetsuit, drysuit with pockets, or pockets that clip to the harness and then around the thigh.

Your post suggests there are other things wrong with a BP&W - what are they?

The ballast over the lungs thing is one of many advantages:

• The harness is clutter free and does not restrict your movement as much as a jacket.
• The BP is virtually indestructible. If the webbing wears out, it can be replaced cheaply. If the wing need to be replaced, you can do so without binning the whole rig.
• The BP&W will grow with your diving. If you never go past easy single tank diving, it still has several advantages, but if you want to carry twins, it is easy to do so and you are using the same harness you know and love.
• D-rings can be added/removed at will and moved to where you want them.
• Less unwanted buoyancy.