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Shearwater Petrel 2 vs. SubGravity H3
- Thread starter THRASH
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---------- Post added August 22nd, 2015 at 06:26 AM ----------
No news to report on AI as of yet.
Hi, I don't want to be the source of "reports" that the display is too crowded. My impression, personal to me, was that the "big number" mode is not crowded at all and gives a very legible, understandable presentation of all essential dive information (depth, time, NDL/deco stops, TTS, Mix, MOD. I can see where AI could be fit into this screen pretty easily and legibly and I sent them some suggestions through their facebook page.
The "standard" screen, which is more oriented to technical divers and includes a tissue loading bar graph, I found to be crowded, with the essential information not so easy to instantly grasp. Yes, on this screen, I would not see how they could fit AI information. I think they should (easy for me to say since I don't write software) cut down the things shown and go to a system of multiple screens that you can go through by pushing a button or the scroll wheel on the T1.
However, my comments are from the viewpoint of a recreational diver and technical divers might have an entirely different viewpoint and be happy with the standard display--so don't let my personal opinion sway you--go look at one if you can.
The "standard" screen, which is more oriented to technical divers and includes a tissue loading bar graph, I found to be crowded, with the essential information not so easy to instantly grasp. Yes, on this screen, I would not see how they could fit AI information. I think they should (easy for me to say since I don't write software) cut down the things shown and go to a system of multiple screens that you can go through by pushing a button or the scroll wheel on the T1.
However, my comments are from the viewpoint of a recreational diver and technical divers might have an entirely different viewpoint and be happy with the standard display--so don't let my personal opinion sway you--go look at one if you can.
OP
THRASH
Contributor
Thank you for that information. When I looked at the H3 I pretty much thought the same thing as you. I wish I could take the dang thing on a dive to check it out. :cool2:
walkonmars
Contributor
In response to it being a "killer" of other brands... Imagine if the T1 could read the AI code transmission off of another brand's AI transmitter? That would be a killer. Legal? I believe so since you are passively "listening" to the transmission of another brand's transmitter. Used at our own risk, right?
What might be a killer is a "standard" transmitter with an open protocol. Esp. if it sold for a couple of hundred instead of five.
I've got about a hundred dives on my Five years old age Galileo Sol. Still on original battery. But don't worry I got two spare batteries for both computer and transmitter. Just don't know when I will need them...
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Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Chiung
Contributor
Assuming the algorithm is the same and implemented the same between the Petrel (which I have about 100 dives on since buying it 2 months ago) and the H3 (which I have not seen or dove) I would score them as such:
points to Shearwater
- reputation
- user replaceable battery
points to Subgravity/Seabear
- better form factor (the Petrel is only slightly less brick-like than my Orca Edge)
- potential air integration
The UI of the Petrel is fine, that of the H3 is unknown to me and there do not appear to be many videos available online simulating an H3 being setup, dove, changing gases etc. However, there are plenty of such Petrel videos online.
If I was Subgravity I would put as many videos online as I could of the H3 and T1 going thru their paces, and I would clarify the AI issue asap
points to Shearwater
- reputation
- user replaceable battery
points to Subgravity/Seabear
- better form factor (the Petrel is only slightly less brick-like than my Orca Edge)
- potential air integration
The UI of the Petrel is fine, that of the H3 is unknown to me and there do not appear to be many videos available online simulating an H3 being setup, dove, changing gases etc. However, there are plenty of such Petrel videos online.
If I was Subgravity I would put as many videos online as I could of the H3 and T1 going thru their paces, and I would clarify the AI issue asap
I read the H3 manual. The UI looks perfectly fine to me (as a user of an Oceanic Atom 3). It has on-screen prompts to cue you for which button and whether it's a short press or long press.
I need to buy a tech computer in the next couple of months. I foresee getting an H3 or a Petrel. I like the H3 form factor better and I would like to have the option for AI. My biggest hold-ups are:
- non-user replaceable battery
- lack of info on the AI option
The battery issue for me comes down to several things:
- The H3 warranty explicitly does not cover the battery. Reference this PDF of their warranty: https://subgravity.zendesk.com/atta...M8MUS4j/?name=SubGravity+Warranty+Details.pdf
- Their is no published information on the cost to have the battery replaced. And if it needs to be replaced in 6 months, the warranty says it's on you.
- I have a Samsung tablet that could use a new battery. They want $150 to replace it. How do I know, in 3 years time (which seems like a reasonable life expectancy for a "watch" battery), SubGravity won't be charging $150 to replace the battery? $50 per year to keep the battery up puts a new spin on the cost of the H3.
- The entire supply of replacement batteries for my Samsung tablet were manufactured when the tablets were all manufactured. So, now, the best battery I can get has been sitting on a shelf for 4 years. The nature of these lithium batteries is such that they degrade even if they are never installed. That means I can never restore my tablet to lasting as long as it did when it was new. How do I know that the same thing won't happen with H3 batteries in a few years when they come out with something newer and better. I like the knowledge that I could use a Petrel pretty much literally forever, without ever having to pay the manufacturer for anything. I will always be able to buy AA batteries somewhere.
- Plus, there's the obvious: If I forget to charge my H3, I'm screwed. If I have a Petrel, I just need to have some spare AAs somewhere.
And then there is the AI issue.
Of course we are all wondering why the info disappeared from the SeaBear website. Did they figure out that there is a reason they won't be able to support AI with the H3s that are already out in the marketplace? Is it because, even though the H3 has the hardware built in, now that they are testing actual AI they realized that battery life is no longer tenable because of the extra drain from processing AI? Did they figure out there is no good way to display the data, given the small screen size? Did they figure out there is some other issue with the hardware in the H3 that means it won't actually work right with the final engineering product for their AI transmitter? Did it turn out that the anticipated market size for the AI transmitter is so small that they have determined that can't sell enough of them, at the price they would have to charge, to make it worth even manufacturing them in the first place? Did they hit a surprise snag related to RF frequencies and the rules for different countries that is making them have to change what the transmitter will use, which means existing H3s won't work because they came set to receive on a different frequency?
We could speculate all day on reasons why it might have turned out that the H3 won't work with whatever AI they are coming out with (assuming they still do release it, of course). And, of course, it might all be complete baloney, and everything could be totally hunky dory. But, until we do know, we don't know. And it makes it tough to decide to buy an H3 right now when the AI is still a question mark and the Petrel has the clear advantage when it comes to the battery technology that is used.
I really like the look and size of the H3 a lot better than the Petrel. I just wish I had a better feeling about how well the battery will serve me 5 years from now. I know a Petrel would still be working good as ever in 5 years (if I don't break it). And I wish I had a better feeling about the AI functionality and cost.
walkonmars
Contributor
I own and use a Petrel but willing to talk "nice" about the H3. First, maybe find out if the battery is a special design or an industry standard type. This would mean not only fresh batteries for replacement but possible aftermarket availability even for the manufacturer to source when the need arises. Another item to mention is consider the amount of diving and running time added to the normal drain the batteries will see during the 3 year period you mentioned. If the amount of "full cycles" is low, you should be able to get good life from the batteries. AI is nice to have and less clutter on the wrist and less hoses around the first stage. I personally don't trust it 100% and I'm starting to run a pony and stage bottle from time to time. Form factor can't be beat but honestly, if you are "growing" more into the sport you will appreciate a larger screen and more info. At one time I considered a watch sized wrist computer (Suunto, Mares) but so happy I didn't get one of those. If you normally wear a watch then go ahead and get one because it is no worse than a nice fashion watch and it functions as a full featured dive computer many times better than any Rolex, Citizen or Heuer. I personally have thin wrists and positively hate having anything on my wrist outside of water including a fashion watch, jewelry or charity support band. If you are a wetsuit or drysuit diver, the length of the band may make it wearing out of water clumsy. Lastly, imagine you are diving at night, in low light (happens a lot in the day time) or at an overhang. Do you want a small computer screen or a big one? I personally want a big one.
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