Shearwater live streaming update July 23

[stuartv]

Says the man who has bought and replaced more computers than anyone else on the board

I have real experience behind my thought to just buy the best computer right off the bat.

 

[Father]

If they do that they will replace some more sales of $900 Perdix computers with $450 Peregrines. For some of those they might sell a $100 (guess) trimix upgrade. Maybe they will eventually do that but I would guess they will wait until they want to kill the Perdix form factor.

Then I guess this begs the question... is the Perdix grossly overpriced? Or maybe a better way to ask: is there a way to put dollar value on the features not on the Peregrine?

• User replaceable battery (changes the form factor): I feel like this is an even trade. You give up user-replaceable battery and gain a smaller form factor.
  
• Digital compass (hardware/software): How big is the part that facilitates this function? Would it fit into the Peregrine form factor? How much does the part cost? I would make a comparison int he price between the Petrel and the Petrel 2 but it actually makes no sense. Go into the WaybackMachine and look at prices on DGX. I don't have actual release dates of either, but the price for the Petrel was $849. The Petrel 2 was $749. So the compass cost -$100.
  
• AI (hardware/software): Safe to say this and the compass seem to be the biggest points of contention for most with Trimix being a close third? How big is the part that that facilitates this function? Would it fit into the Peregrine form factor? Price difference between the 2 Perdix models is $86.
• Trimix: The software already exists and has for many models. Can you even put a price on this?
  
• 5 gasses: The software that already exists. Can you even put a price on this? Does having less gasses on the Peregrine make it less intimidating to the entry-level recreational diver it's apparently targeting?
  
• Goes deeper: 500' vs 394' (isn't this deeper than Trimix can go?). Also,this didn't change the price between the Perdix and the Petrel, did it? The Teric also goes deeper than the Perdix.
  
• Log (200hrs vs 1000hrs): Is this a problem for anyone? Poll - How many dives do you leave on your computer before you sync with your log app?

I'm not shitting on the Peregrine or Shearwater (not intentionally anyway). Just curious if all of these differences collectively make the Peregrine worth less or does it just make it seem like the Perdix / AI is priced unjustifiably higher or just price within the range of their respective competitors? If the Perdix was priced $100 less would it destroy the competition like the Suunto Steel Eon/Core? Or is it already? I feel like it is, but I've had conversations with people online that will argue the Suunto is a better computer.

 

[Father]

Well, any sane person will just do The Helitrox course rather than ANDP (or the equivalent pair of courses outside of TDI) and get a 20/35 ticket essentially for nothing. Especially in the world where that is the first experience of deco diving many people will go no farther and likely only very rarely be actually buying trimix. Doing full trimix is a different deal and a bit more serious, and then I might agree that a Perdix is better, but imagine a Perdix backed up by a Peregrine.

Shows how much I even know about Trimix. I didn't know there were different levels. But that's coming from a guy who got his tec certs from PADI so I guess it should be expected, right?

 

[KenGordon]

Shows how much I even know about Trimix. I didn't know there were different levels. But that's coming from a guy who got his tec certs from PADI so I guess it should be expected, right?

I think that PADI Tec 45 is the first proper deco course using a deco gas? Anyway, at that level TDI will let you use 20/35. It looks like the first PADI course with trimix is a 65m qualification which I guess let you use 18/45 or some such. BSAC has a 50m trimix course, and most of the other agencies start much much shallower than 65m. Not only because of narcosis but lately because of gas density, for example the TDI Helitrox course has gone from 20% (maybe 25% I forget) helium to 35% at 45m following Gavin Anthony’s work on gas density.

 

[KenGordon]

Then I guess this begs the question... is the Perdix grossly overpriced? Or maybe a better way to ask: is there a way to put dollar value on the features not on the Peregrine?

• User replaceable battery (changes the form factor): I feel like this is an even trade. You give up user-replaceable battery and gain a smaller form factor.
  
• Digital compass (hardware/software): How big is the part that facilitates this function? Would it fit into the Peregrine form factor? How much does the part cost? I would make a comparison int he price between the Petrel and the Petrel 2 but it actually makes no sense. Go into the WaybackMachine and look at prices on DGX. I don't have actual release dates of either, but the price for the Petrel was $849. The Petrel 2 was $749. So the compass cost -$100.
  
• AI (hardware/software): Safe to say this and the compass seem to be the biggest points of contention for most with Trimix being a close third? How big is the part that that facilitates this function? Would it fit into the Peregrine form factor? Price difference between the 2 Perdix models is $86.
• Trimix: The software already exists and has for many models. Can you even put a price on this?
  
• 5 gasses: The software that already exists. Can you even put a price on this? Does having less gasses on the Peregrine make it less intimidating to the entry-level recreational diver it's apparently targeting?
  
• Goes deeper: 500' vs 394' (isn't this deeper than Trimix can go?). Also,this didn't change the price between the Perdix and the Petrel, did it? The Teric also goes deeper than the Perdix.
  
• Log (200hrs vs 1000hrs): Is this a problem for anyone? Poll - How many dives do you leave on your computer before you sync with your log app?

I'm not shitting on the Peregrine or Shearwater (not intentionally anyway). Just curious if all of these differences collectively make the Peregrine worth less or does it just make it seem like the Perdix / AI is priced unjustifiably higher or just price within the range of their respective competitors? If the Perdix was priced $100 less would it destroy the competition like the Suunto Steel Eon/Core? Or is it already? I feel like it is, but I've had conversations with people online that will argue the Suunto is a better computer.

All the Shearwater computers are expensive. You are not paying for features, those mostly go unused. Like buying a Mercedes rather than a Ford, the reasons are not altogether requirements. So how does Shearwater increase its turnover? To sell more computers it has to find other niches but at the same time not completely cannibalise existing product. Sure adding AI and a compass would make this a better product but so would cutting the price of a Perdix in half. Until Perdix sales cost more than they pay they will want to keep it going. Maybe Shearwater will decide that pile them high and sell them cheap is a better plan than their existing one? Hmmm...

 

[KenGordon]

I have real experience behind my thought to just buy the best computer right off the bat.

Did you ever buy a computer you considered not to be the best? In all seriousness, the new diver cannot really judge.

 

[Father]

I think that PADI Tec 45 is the first proper deco course using a deco gas? Anyway, at that level TDI will let you use 20/35. It looks like the first PADI course with trimix is a 65m qualification which I guess let you use 18/45 or some such. BSAC has a 50m trimix course, and most of the other agencies start much much shallower than 65m. Not only because of narcosis but lately because of gas density, for example the TDI Helitrox course has gone from 20% (maybe 25% I forget) helium to 35% at 45m following Gavin Anthony’s work on gas density.

I guess the need for a shallower Trimix course is because some people get narc'ed at recreational depth limits? There's a cheaper way to fix that problem... flippin dive deeper more often.

 

[Father]

Did you ever buy a computer you considered not to be the best? In all seriousness, the new diver cannot really judge.

As soon as I bought a D4i I wish I was less poor and could afford a D6i.
Two months after I bought a Petrel I wished I hadn't... because the Petrel 2 came out. So... to answer your question: kind of, yes.

 

[KenGordon]

I guess the need for a shallower Trimix course is because some people get narc'ed at recreational depth limits? There's a cheaper way to fix that problem... flippin dive deeper more often.

Read this
Alert Diver | Performance Under Pressure

 

[Dark Wolf]

I think that PADI Tec 45 is the first proper deco course using a deco gas? Anyway, at that level TDI will let you use 20/35. It looks like the first PADI course with trimix is a 65m qualification which I guess let you use 18/45 or some such. BSAC has a 50m trimix course, and most of the other agencies start much much shallower than 65m. Not only because of narcosis but lately because of gas density, for example the TDI Helitrox course has gone from 20% (maybe 25% I forget) helium to 35% at 45m following Gavin Anthony’s work on gas density.

Tec 40 uses 50% for deco, is my understanding.

DW