Shark kills French diver in Marsa Alam

[samaka]

I'd like to know what REALLY happened. The shark preservation guy saying that it wasn't the shark's fault is logical but I ... well ... don't believe him at face value. Obviously they don't want to alarm divers and they don't want to stir up anti-shark sentiment....

I'd like to hear from witnesses.

R..

You can trust Amr Ali mate. I don't think it's likely that eye witnesses will appear on SB for detailed reports. We are a few people living and working here that try to tell the correct story. If you check out who is saying what here on the forum you can figure out who's got the correct information.

I've never heard or seen of shark feeding dives near Marsa Alam. I'm not familiar with all of the sites but when we want to see big sharks we always go to Elphinstone where I can say it would be difficult or impossible to do anything like a shark-feeding dive. You're usually drifting in relatively stiff current and if I'm not mistaken the bottom there is well beyond the depth at which sport divers can dive.

R..

As I've written earlier in the thread (a few times) shark feeding is illegal in Egypt so there are no organized Shark Feeding Excursions in the Red Sea. However, as I've also written earlier in the thread (a few times) there are idiots trying to play Tarzan and being macho dive guides who are chucking food in the water to attract sharks. I've heard some saying that they even bring chicken with them down on dives feeding the sharks in front of the guests. If I had seen it with my own eyes I would have reported them even if they are mates of mine, and so I've told them.

Elphinstone as a reef would be topographically be close yo ideal for the traditional way of shark feeding. Normally the Longimanus hang in the area around the south plateau and there is a sandy bottom at a depth of around 16-20 metres close to the main reef. Thank God that's not allowed.

This incident occured in the St. John's area though, far from Marsa Alam, south of Ras Banas. There you have loads of dive sites that would be perfect for the traditional shark feeding dives. Again... Thank God that's not allowed.

Didn't I read earlier in this thread that the Diver in question jumped off the boat and "freedived" a short distance to get to the same depth as the shallow swimming shark. There were snorkelers in the water watching the shark also?

Would it be unreasonable for a shark to be spooked by someone doing this and reacting my biting?

What you read earlier in the thread was some one speculating... As I've written earlier in the thread (a few times) the woman was snorkeling, duck dived down and was bitten as she resurfaced.

Listen to the people who live and work in the area. We are familiar with the dive sites and we know what's going on. I have a job that I have to do and I really do not have unlimited time to hang on SB but I do as much as I can just to be prepared when idiots write stupid things. Someone's got to deliver the right information...

...a...

 

[vladimir]

At the risk of minor thread-jacking... We've seen hammerhead and grey reefs at Little Cayman, and grey reefs on almost every dive at Grand Cayman all without baiting. In the Red Sea we've seen hammerheads and a thresher without baiting.

I have also seen gray reef sharks at Little Cayman and Belize on multiple dives. I have seen a hammerhead at the Elbow in Belize, too. But I have about 20 dives in Little Cayman and over 60 in Belize. If the oceans were in a pristine state we'd be seeing sharks on every dive; now we are thrilled about a sighting every ten or twenty dives. I have seen hundreds of sharks and three or four species in one dive at Cocos. But you have to get to Cocos for that. I have seen 25 to 50 grays on a dive in Palau. But you have to fly to Palau for that. I have had a hammerhead come within petting distance in Papua New Guinea. That's why people fly the twenty four hours.

So, yes, I agree that the oceans are not totally bereft of sharks. Neither I nor docmartin was contending that you have to bait to see a shark. What docmartin said, and what I agreed with, was that you probably have to bait to see great whites, makos, tigers, or blues. None of the sharks you've seen are on that list. I then added that shark encounters in general were pretty uncommon--as opposed to non-existent--in the Caribbean, in the absence of baiting. The Red Sea is not in the Caribbean. To be more precise, I would characterize "pretty uncommon" as a 1 in 10 chance on the average Caribbean dive, meaning if you had 20 dives in Bonaire, 20 in Little Cayman, 20 in Cozumel, 20 in Belize, and 20 in the British Virgin Islands, you've probably had 10 shark encounters. That is a rough guess based on my Caribbean experience, without counting non-dive destinations like Jamaica or Puerto Rico, where encountering any fish at all seems to be rare.

 

[jwc3]

The shark does not know what we are. We've been intruding in their home only for half a century while the shark has evolved for millions of years to become what it is today.

Actually, people have been swimming in the ocean for a lot longer than 50 years. We humans may be new relative to the shark -- we've been around for about 200,000 years, sharks for about 450 million years -- but our ancestors have spent many of those 200,000 years searching the seas for food. More recently, the Greeks were freediving for sponges about 2,500 years ago. Sharks are smarter than many think (their brain mass to body mass ratio is similar to mammals) and they probably realize that we are not fish.

 

[InTheDrink]

We seem to have gotten off the point somewhat.

I think Samaka has provided excellent information as close to first hand as is possible.

If any more information comes to light that would be great, particularly if there was anything the guest did that could have contributed to her being bitten (duck diving? being alone or near the head of the group? snorkelling as opposed to diving?).

J

 

[jwc3]

Here's a short video about the Oceanic Whitetip Shark, in case you're not familiar with it:

YouTube - Oceanic whitetip shark

 

[samaka]

Actually, people have been swimming in the ocean for a lot longer than 50 years. We humans may be new relative to the shark -- we've been around for about 200,000 years, sharks for about 450 million years -- but our ancestors have spent many of those 200,000 years searching the seas for food. More recently, the Greeks were freediving for sponges about 2,500 years ago. Sharks are smarter than many think (their brain mass to body mass ratio is similar to mammals) and they probably realize that we are not fish.

Hey touché! You’ve got a fair point there ;o)
I should clarify. What I meant was that we as a temporarily permanent underwater life form, scuba divers are something fairly new to the shark whereas “free divers” obviously have been around for quite a while.

We seem to have gotten off the point somewhat.

I think Samaka has provided excellent information as close to first hand as is possible.

If any more information comes to light that would be great, particularly if there was anything the guest did that could have contributed to her being bitten (duck diving? being alone or near the head of the group? snorkelling as opposed to diving?).

J

With duck dive I mean that she was snorkelling on the surface and then free dived (like a duck, head down and feet up) a few metres to get closer to the shark at the depth where the shark was cruising and then ascended back to the surface. We call that “duck dive” some times maybe I should have written free dived.

…….a…….

 

[enano315]

My prayers go out to the lady.Tragic circumstance.Let's not be too quick to judge.It could happen to any of us.Sharks are amazing creatures and deserve respect and a wide careful boundry.I have been in the water with tigers,hammers,reefs,etc. and consider myself lucky so far.Any movements or actions sudden or aggresive can easily be interpreted as a threat or trigger a prey/predator response.Then there is the the old addage:**** happens.It's a hard way to die for any diver.Again condolences to the family.

 

[boulderjohn]

Just to clarify for those who are not familiar with shark names, there is a huge difference between the oceanic white tip in this incident and the white tip reef shark commonly seen in the Caribbean and other parts of the world. White tip reef sharks are pretty much harmless. Oceanic white tips, as this story indicates, are much more worthy of concern.

 

[reefman]

Just to clarify for those who are not familiar with shark names, there is a huge difference between the oceanic white tip in this incident and the white tip reef shark commonly seen in the Caribbean and other parts of the world. White tip reef sharks are pretty much harmless. Oceanic white tips, as this story indicates, are much more worthy of concern.

as a reference, whitetip reef sharks are not indigenous or have been reported in the atlantic or carribean seas. they are native only in the indian and pacific oceans,,,,,,,,,,,,

reefman
key largo

 

[longipalmus]

This is how the trade goes for a French live-aboard operator in the red sea
YouTube - PlongñÆ Requin de nuit elphinstone Egypte-Night shark dive elphinstone reef Egypt
Joomeo - Photo sharing / Partage de photos