Shark Fin Soup ... bleh !!

[cmburch]

I guess there is a difference between killing a moose/elk/bear/lion/elephant/cape buffalo/leopard/you-name-it quickly with a gun and then mount the carcass on the walls than killing a shark slowly by cutting off a fin.

I'm sure that the killed animals would appreciate the quick kill and their body parts being used as trophy.

Killing is killing and humans in general are pretty good at that. So, yes, I find it laughable when Americans get uppity as though our craps don't stink.

Big game hunting is legal in California. Most sharks are not sportfish (Looks like only Leopard shark in CA), so it is not legal to cut their fin off. I think there are several ways at viewing the discussion on this thread. You are now discussing trophy hunting. There is a difference. Forum members trying to relate California sportfishing and hunting to shark finning is definitely not the same. IMO

But that is what it all boils down to if there are no rules and regulations, just opinions. Luckily we have rules and regulations in California on sportfishing and hunting.

 

[fnfalman]

Big game hunting is legal in California. Most sharks are not sportfish (Looks like only Leopard shark in CA), so it is not legal to cut their fin off. I think there are several ways at viewing the discussion on this thread. You are now discussing trophy hunting. There is a difference. Forum members trying to relate California sportfishing and hunting to shark finning is definitely not the same. IMO

But that is what it all boils down to if there are no rules and regulations, just opinions. Luckily we have rules and regulations in California on sportfishing and hunting.

There's "legality" and then there's "morality".

 

[Bubbletrubble]

@ScubaSteve001: I really hate quoting myself in posts, but when someone doesn't actually read the post and misrepresents my position on an issue, I feel that it's warranted.
In my initial post I pointed out that sharkfin soup has been a tradition in China and stated explicitly that since it's been around such a long time, it will probably take quite some time to eradicate its existence. Here's the quote (with one sentence in boldface font for emphasis):

For all of those ScubaBoarders out there who are outraged about how popular sharkfin soup is in China -- this culinary practice is definitely not a new thing. It's been a long-standing tradition that dates back at least to the Ming Dynasty (14th-17th century). That's not to say it's right...it's just to make the point that it will take time to change the Chinese attitude toward sharkfin soup. Perhaps what we need is more high profile Chinese celebrities like NBA star Yao Ming to renounce the delicacy.

Then you wrote:

Remember the good old days when women could not vote? Or when the slaves picked cotton? Lots of things were not new things but guess what? They were still stopped because they were wrong. Women have the right to vote (not everywhere but everywhere that I want to live)! There are no slaves (same qualifier as last point). And sharks should be allowed to live without fear of finning or extinction.

Good grief, ScubaSteve001. Please read my entire post before beginning your rant. Furthermore, I implore you not to construct arguments like this when trying to convince people to join a boycott of the sharkfinning industry. Heck, I am on your side, but what do you think happens when you use sarcasm and hyperbole to convince people that one of their widely-held cultural practices is wrong? I would advise at least feigning a little cultural sensitivity.
When I replied to your rant, you later wrote:

My point was apparently missed. You implied that this culinary practice is acceptible because it has been done for a long time. My point was that many things were done for a long time but we (most of civilized society) have since realized they were unacceptable practices. Thus, in my opinion, just because we have always taken a shark, stripped a couple fins off it and then thrown it into the water to sink and drown, does not mean it should still be considered acceptable.

Apparently my point was missed. I agree 100% that sharkfinning needs to stop. I simply take issue with the way you argue your position. Fortunately, much of what is being written in this thread is nothing more than "preaching to the choir." The real question to ponder is how we can solve the problem through education and/or economics. (BTW, IMHO playing down the potential impact of education is myopic.) Maybe we should be coming up with different ideas to help the situation along in the right direction. Many countries are exporting shark fins to China. The demand exists, so supply lines have been created. Ecuador is one of those countries. This NY Times article chronicles the bustling shark fishing trade based out of Manta...which isn't too far away from the Galapagos Islands. I guess it's not a huge surprise that the scalloped hammerhead along with other shark species will be added to the 2008 Red List of marine animals in danger of extinction. Perhaps the Ecuadorian government would "understand" if the case were made that tourism to the Galapagos Islands would greatly suffer should the shark population be harmed. This tact only works, of course, if the tourist dollars > sharkfinning revenue.
What about making a push to help establish aquariums in China? US zoos already participate in the panda exchange program...perhaps this relationship could be extended. Maybe the Scripps Institute of Oceanography could set up a sister institution somewhere in Asia.
Or how about funding learning-how-to-swim programs in China? Yeah, I know, it sounds crazy, but follow my logic: more swimmers = more potential snorkelers/divers = more people who might appreciate the delicate balance of the marine ecosystem. OK, that's still a crazy idea.
Or maybe some Hollywood director, e.g., Ang Lee, could put together an intelligent documentary geared toward the Taiwanese/Chinese mainstream public. I really do have to commend Yao Ming for his public service announcements advocating a stop to sharkfinning. His view is: "When the buying stops, the killing can, too."
An international ban on finning would be nice...but how would it be enforced?
Please keep in mind that I am making a distinction between the practice of finning and shark fishing in general. As this SFGate.com article points out, shark meat is actually an important source of protein in certain parts of the world, such as India and West Africa.

 

[cmburch]

There's "legality" and then there's "morality".

Yes.

If it is legal by CA DFG. Then it may also be ethical and moral. IMO

Most trophy hunters consume the meat. Most fishermen and hunters are not trophy hunters. How does trophy hunting relate to a Californian protesting shark finning? It does not.

How does the problem with some of California's fisheries relate to a Californian against shark finning. It does not.

Finning of non-sportfish or poaching in California is illegal and is not ethical or moral.

 

[merxlin]

...........Please keep in mind that I am making a distinction between the practice of finning and shark fishing in general. As this SFGate.com article points out, shark meat is actually an important source of protein in certain parts of the world, such as India and West Africa.

I believe we would still be asking the same questions, but would we have the same passion if all the sharks taken for fins only were instead being used whole as sources of food for the hungry parts of the world that cannot get good protein? Does it matter why a natural resource and key component in an ecosystem is being destroyed?

 

[JMdiver]

Sharks are not the only ones that are being depleted, what about the Tunas, Salmons & Monk Seals to name a few.

John

 

[josh]

Expecting change based only on "educating" the people responsible is shortsighted.

You know better and so people just better do what you say eh?

look, the real fact of life is that, in large parts of the world, America saying "do this" or "don't do that" just does not cut it any more. here's the thing - you don't own the world. You are part of it, but that does NOT give you the right to dictate to the rest of the world what should, or should not be done.

You can try to convince the rest of the world (and guess what, by and large that means educating), but you can't dictate.

America is FULLY within its rights to stop the practice in USA and to stop importing sharksfin. Now, without checking I will bet importation of sharksfin into USA is fully legal. So maybe you should look there FIRST, before stomping around the rest of the world and telling them what to do?

Or even maybe, just maybe, sort out you OWN ecological disasters before sorting out those in other countries?

And by the way - just to get you started, here is a list of some 300 to 400 endangered species in North America (mostly USA):

Earth's Endangered Creatures - Endangered Species of North America

 

[White Knight]

Thank you Vladimir for at least partially agreeing with me. Every time I dive into our oceans and I remember what it used to be only 20 years ago and my heart breaks! I say kill everything and get it over with!!!!!!!

 

[merxlin]

You know better and so people just better do what you say eh?

look, the real fact of life is that, in large parts of the world, America saying "do this" or "don't do that" just does not cut it any more. here's the thing - you don't own the world. You are part of it, but that does NOT give you the right to dictate to the rest of the world what should, or should not be done.

You can try to convince the rest of the world (and guess what, by and large that means educating), but you can't dictate.

America is FULLY within its rights to stop the practice in USA and to stop importing sharksfin. Now, without checking I will bet importation of sharksfin into USA is fully legal. So maybe you should look there FIRST, before stomping around the rest of the world and telling them what to do?

Or even maybe, just maybe, sort out you OWN ecological disasters before sorting out those in other countries?

And by the way - just to get you started, here is a list of some 300 to 400 endangered species in North America (mostly USA):

Earth's Endangered Creatures - Endangered Species of North America

If you read my post it says

Expecting change based only on "educating" the people responsible is shortsighted. (emphasis added)

Of course education is needed. To not include re-education is also shortsighted.

And perhaps you see it as dictating. I see it as trying to overcome a very serious disaster in the making, before it's too late, and becomes one of those ecological disasters that needs to be "sorted out". Of course we can just ignore it and tend to our own business, but it would be a shame to have to look back and say "if only someone would have done something!".

We are not talking about sorting out an ecological disaster in someone elses country. We are talking about the dessimation of a species from the world's oceans. Who do we wait for to take action? The countries responsible are not taking action, so someone must. I take it by your post you are not a US inhabitant. Are we perfect? No. But ecologically we are trying to offset many of the mistakes that were made in the past, and are at least trying to make up for some we are making now. Hopefully we will make fewer in the future. By your methodology, nothing would ever get fixed in this world as I do not believe there is a country on earth that has no ecological or moral shortcomings in someones eyes.

The fact is that the U.S. does have the economic power to make this practice less attractive, and should use it to do so. Hate us if you want, but tell me what your country is doing to help "sort this out"? Although sharkfin products are legal here, there is a very strong movement to get companies to stop selling them. More and more are doing so every day. So we are not looking to our govenment to make the change. This is happening because people like me take the time to write letters and support organizations that will work to end this atrocity.

You are a dive instructor yet seem to care so little about the condition of the ocean, or more importantly the mindset that is creating this problem? Who will you teach to dive when there is nothing left to see?

 

[josh]

Hate us if you want,

Slightly paranoid there I think. Not everyone who disagrees with Americans "hates" them, they just disagree.

You are a dive instructor yet seem to care so little about the condition of the ocean, or more importantly the mindset that is creating this problem? Who will you teach to dive when there is nothing left to see?

Who says I do't care? Show me one thing in any post I have made that says I don't??

You fail repeatedly to see that its not your aim thats objectionable, its your methodology.

I STRONGLY believe in education, and believe that its the only way forward. "Do as I say because I know better than you" is a poor basis. Education includes teaching not only citizens, but also buisness leaders and governments. Pointing out that this practice will COST governments in the long run is far more effective than almost anything.