Shadow Divers – Exposed U 869

[tonka97]

I want to take this opportunity to wish everyone on SB a very Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

Now back to Bonaire dreams....I'll leave the deep Atlantic wrecks to better divers than I!

 

[atedeschi]

Well I think you should give this post a break. The book does not seem to have affected Gary. He has three new books out. Also the people that keep bashing him seem to not even be from around the area so not to sound like a smart *** but what do you know unless you know the people involved. I was in grade school when this was all going on but know a lot of the people that were involved in the deep diving scene at the time and they seem to agree with Gary’s version. As for the sour grapes he was encouraged by other divers to write this book he had not even read SD until getting ready to write SDE. On that note some say why didn't he want to id the sub he was working on his Doria book and himself and others were getting artifact off the Doria such as (windows, china, MOSAIC artwork, etc)

Just read the book if you want, if not don't.

 

[H2Andy]

he had not even read SD until getting ready to write SDE

holy cow!

so... he came up with the idea to EXPOSE "Shadow Divers"

BEFORE

he even read Shadow Divers...

the man's a genius

as for giving this thread a break, i'm all for it .. but for God's sake, stop making this sort of comment or we'll never end the madness!

 

[scubak]

I just think you have to read...alot...to get any kind of feeling for what went on during these dives...
I can tell you that I have found a couple of discrepencies between Shadow divers and The last dive...
It all doesn't really matter to me...these guys, Chatterton, Kohler, Nagle,Gentile and the others were doing their best to "Explore" these "new" wrecks that weren't even within limits on air (as we know it today)....These guys dives were where we had no guts...and no knowledge..we still don't have too much these days...
Give these guys a break...they did the best they knew when they knew it...they dived to these wrecks, came back alive and lived to tell the tale...
I think the sport of diving is safer and more knowledgable because of what these guys went through and lived through....and they lived to tell the tale...
Just my own opinion...
Kirsten

 

[atedeschi]

holy cow!

so... he came up with the idea to EXPOSE "Shadow Divers"

BEFORE

he even read Shadow Divers...

the man's a genius

Talk about out of context.

...he was encouraged by other divers to write this book he had not even read SD until getting ready to write SDE...

And I believe the title came after the book was done.

 

[ReefHound]

and by the way, other than in Gentile's book, i can't find any trace of any publication where McKellar himself states any of this.

all we have is Gentile's hearsay assertions as to what McKellar might or might not have given C & K

He's been asked several times to provide supporting evidence to assertions made by Gentile, he just ignores it and keeps spouting forth new propaganda.

I don't know about Mark McKellar but Shadow Divers does not credit Chatterton for uncovering that U-869 was headed for U.S. and not sunk off Gibraltar, it says he received a letter from Robert Koppock in the UK who came over the intercepts. Chatterton, having learned to question every fact and double-check records, needed to see all the war intercepts himself before running with it. Maybe there was a McKellar who provided similar info, maybe it came after Koppock's letter. If so, one wonders why McKellar was looking at these intercepts in the first place? Why would he have given his findings to Chatterton?

Who gets credit for what exactly? I don't recall JC/RK ever claiming they did it all without help. They acknowledged help from many. It's like when two detectives are work a murder case, ultimately identifying, locating, and arresting the one who did it. Do they get credit for solving the case? Likely they received dozens of tips and assistance. Do you credit the person on the street who looked at a mug shot and said that might be the guy? Do you credit the feds who return back the results of a fingerprint match? The lab who returns the test results? The doorman who confirms the suspect lives there? The uniforms called in on the pickup who do the actual cuffing and transporting? Or do you credit the guys who were leading the investigation, soliciting information, checking out tips, compiling evidence, and tying it all together into a conclusion?

 

[hilti]

Good luck, tonka 97, no one has an open mind about this. It amazes me that there isn't any interest in the references for SDE~ it seems there would be some weight given to the divers' opinions in the book other than the editor/publisher if the mind set is that GG is so self absorbed. Honestly, nobody was there, it's all about the money, so don't trash your heroe's and be happy. Merry Christmas, Jim

 

[ReefHound]

Good luck, tonka 97, no one has an open mind about this. It amazes me that there isn't any interest in the references for SDE~

There's lots of interests, we keep asking the SDE supporters to provide references for the SDE "corrections" and allegations as to who actually did what. I haven't seen any yet nor have I seen any excerpts where someone is directly quoted.

 

[JeffG]

Good luck, tonka 97, no one has an open mind about this.

Well considering I know someone that was on the dive that the tool box was found and who doesn't have a dog in this fight. I'll will go with his version instead of Gary's.

 

[Chaseh]

Well considering I know someone that was on the dive that the tool box was found and who doesn't have a dog in this fight. I'll will go with his version instead of Gary's.

Exactly, but he'll just come back again with the same tired old flames. Joke about Kurson's earlier books, not cite any other referrences other than Gary's book, and ignore all those who have taken on Gary based upon first hand experience. Completely ignoring the concept of hearsay.

This is not going anywhere. He's stuck to the GG teet, and cannot absorb any more information on the subject.

Gary's trying to make a few bucks when SD is rereleased along with the film, in a very similar manner to all the hang on books to the Da Vinci Code. It will make a nice addition to an endcap display of SD.

If nothing else, at least accept that JC found the tag, and the tag was the only way to say definitively what wreck it was. That's the standard.