Shadow Divers – Exposed U 869

[Wayward Son]

Exactly, but he'll just come back again with the same tired old flames. Joke about Kurson's earlier books, not cite any other referrences other than Gary's book, and ignore all those who have taken on Gary based upon first hand experience. Completely ignoring the concept of hearsay.

This is not going anywhere.

You're entirely too kind,

All he's presented is a he said/he said, with no substantiating evidence, not even the most vague & questionable. When asked why, he has no answer, simply regurgitates the same crap again.

Circular reasoning is insufficient. Gentile is not credible because he wrote something, he's credible or not because what he wrote can be proven.

 

[jeffrey-c]

I think his last post showed us his entire repertoire of intellect and logic. It's like playing tennis against a wall - relentless, and no contribution of its own. Stick a fork in it, this thread's done......:coffin:

 

[tonka97]

Seeker Baloney Sandwich:

p. 4 Shadow Divers
"Conceived in Nagle's imagination, the Seeker was built for a single purpose: to take scuba divers to the most dangerous shipwrecks in the Atlantic Ocean"

p. 344 Shadow Divers Exposed
"Contrary to what was written on page 4 of Shadow Divers, Nagle did not build the Seeker. He did not plan the boat's construction.

The Seeker was commissioned by a man who designed the boat as a private yacht for his family. The man (whose name is unknown to me) died shortly after completion. The boat sat in the shipyard for more than a year before Nagle chanced upon it. He bought it, removed the luxurious chairs and sofas, pulled up the carpets, modified the interior layout, added a wheelhouse, and equipped the boat for diving."

:huh: :no

 

[tonka97]

Shadow Divers Exposed, p. 197 http://www.ggentile.com/sdexposed.html

"The damage that was done by a book like Shadow Divers is difficult to assess and more difficult to undo. Unless its falsehoods are disputed, the inventions and inaccuracies could take permanent form.

A prime example of this occurred when I (G Gentile) interviewed Brad Sheard. He was on the boat when Gilligan and I recovered the "Closed for Inventory" sign. When I asked him about the incident, he stated at first that Guglieri and Kohler must have recovered the sign. After a little prompting, he realized with some astonishment that he was wrong-that he was remembering the scene that he had recently read in the book, not the actual event as it occurred more than sixteen years earlier....

At what point does myth become historical tradition?"

Here is the passage referred to in Shadow Divers:
Shadow Divers, p. 113
"Nothing worked. Kohler nearly lost consciousness from anger. Once his air supply was depleted, he could do nothing more than cut off the sign Chatterton had left"

:huh:

 

[ReefHound]

Keep going, tonka. The more of these trivial and nit picky examples of perceived errors you post, the more people will realize that Shadow Divers Exploited has no real substance.

 

[tonka97]

Thanks for encouragement.

Don't you hate it when facts get in the way of a good story?? Would be funny if the subject material was not so important.

 

[Wayward Son]

We're waiting for facts. Please provide some.

 

[tonka97]

Paraphrased from Shadow Divers Exposed, Gary Gentile:

Credit for discovery of the U-869 should be given to Bill Nagle, or alternatively to the ENTIRE group of divers on the Seeker that day.

Here is summary:

Bogan (not Skeets per Shadow Divers report) gave a set of loran coordinates to Bill Nagle, indicating a wreck site.

Bill Nagle organized a trip to investigate the site. Chatterton was his sole crew member.

Date: September 2, 1991
The divers included:

Kevin Brennan
Kip Cochran
Steve Feldman
Lloyd Garrick
John Hildeman
Steve Lombardo
Mark McMahon
Ron Ostrowski
Doug Roberts
Dick Shoe
Paul Skibinski
John Yurga

My opinion: this was the biggest travesty and hoax that Shadow Divers perpetrated. Removing contributors to the discovery, identification, and analysis of the U-869, and substituting heroic caricatures (Kohler and Chatterton).

John Yurga, Barbara Lander, and Tom Packer, among others played significant roles in several key phases of the true story.

Remember the scene in Shadow Divers with Chatterton heroically providing chest compressions to Chris Rouse for 1.5 hours or so? A key scene in the book.

Trouble is: it didn't happen.

Tom Packer was the diver providing the strenuous chest compressions without relief.

Chatterton was sitting comfortably, periodically squeezing the Ambu-bag on Chris's face.

Tom Packer should have been given his proper place in the scene. Instead, John Chatterson and Kurson cut and pasted Chatterson providing the exhausting chest compressions.

This is just one of MANY shameless attempts to puff John Chatterton's status and role as diving hero.

 

[Wayward Son]

Still don't have any facts? Sad, isn't it?

 

[Xray99]

Hey guys, don't mean to open up any old wounds or anything by resurrecting this old thread.
First off, I'm not into diving at all. Due to a life long interest in military affiars, and serving 8 years in the USMC, I read alot of war themed books.
Was browsing my local libraries shelves a couple years back to see if there was anything new, this book caught my eye as I have never seen it before [and I am quite familiar with the military section], so I read it and thought it was a very good book.

"Very good books" I tend to read more than once, so I just read it again, so this is fresh in my mind.
Started googling for more info on "shadow divers" and this is one of the sites that came up, so here I am.

Can't say I have read "exposed", first I ever heard about it was yesterday.
Checked Amazon, and I am not minded to pay $25 for it, so I doubt if I'll ever read it unless the library ends up stocking it.

Anyways, I have read through most of the thread with interest, and I have yet to determine why this Gentile guy feels so slighted & compelled to trash people.
Did he actually have a part of this discovery that wasn't mentioned in the book ?

I'm sure there may be some embellishments that someone like me, not at all familiar with diving, wouldn't pick up on.
It was of course meant for a wide, non technical audience.
I got a kick out of the part when them crabs started talking to that guy doing the sand sweep, and wondered if that really happened.
One part where I said "Oh c'mon" was at the end, when the "pipe" that he was bashing with a sledge hammer turned out to be a huge oxygen canister.
Ok, I can see that happening ,,, But to say "Hell with it, I'm gonna bash it again no matter if I blow myself and partner up", I found that a bit of a stretch ,,, Not to mention that:
* Picking up probably would have been more effective than bashing it
* Doubtful if it would have blown anyhow, as the needed spark would have been sadly lacking 230 ft under.
So I don't know about that. Then that other incident in the same section, where he grabbed the overhead beam to boost himself up to pass the malfunctioning camera back to his partner ,,, Because he couldn't quite do it with his tanks on, then the beam fell on him.
Just paragraphs later, he ends up passing the parts box through the same hole with his tanks on, so I didn't quite get why it was such a problem to pass out the camera, but very easy to pass out the box out the same hole.

Other than that, I really didn't pick up on anything that is obviously contradictory.
These guys seemed on a mission and driven by the spirit of discovery, they were the driving force behind the positive ID, so naturally deserve most of the credit.

I would have thought it would have been that Belinda guy [sorry if spelled wrong] that would have slammed them more than anyone, since that feud was really played up in the book.

One more thing, I was talking to this guy at work a few months back, and he had on some scuba shirt. I asked him if he dives he said oh yeah, you ?
I said no, but I read a damn good diving book, he dropped what he was doing and said oh yeah, I betcha I have read it.
I couldn't remember the title, I said it was about these guys who found a German Uboat off of NJ ,,,ect, And he said oh yeah, shadow divers.
I said yep thats it, and we talked for quite a while about diving.
He said that more guys have died diving it since the book was written, is that true ?