Shadow Divers – Exposed U 869

[The Chairman]

I have talked with Gary, and even gave him a ride at the Florida Dive show. His ego did not seem to be all that big and the discussion was over many topics. He surely did not seem to need to be the center of attention. Gary has contributed to our portal, and I hope he does so again.

I have had a few beers with John at the Chicago show last year and then had a few meals with him down in the Keys when we took Matt diving. I am not sure he has an ego. If he does, he sure hid it well. The man was down to earth as they come. He is quick with a joke and quick to laugh at other's jokes as well.

Somehow, I can see either man laughing at this thread. It would fit their respective personalities. To be so misunderstood and/or maligned is part and parcel of being among the creme de la creme. So, let's just call 'am both "strokes" and get it over with. They are both living kinda large, and most of us would just love to be in their shoes.

 

[tonka97]

Agreed!

Enjoyed this thread!

Now back to thoughts of Bonaire.........................

 

[joe rock]

Just read the book and form your own opinion. Don't get entangled in the 'competition'!
I consider Gary Gentile to be expert on the subject of wreck diving.
I certainly am not, but I do enjoy learning.
Thanks Gary for a great read!

http://www.ggentile.com/sdexposed.html
http://www.amazon.com/Technical-Diving-Handbook-Gary-Gentile/dp/1883056055/ref=cm_sylt_fullview_prod_txt_10/002-1199434-3472000/002-1199434-3472000
http://www.amazon.com/s/002-1199434-3472000?ie=UTF8&index=books&rank=-relevance%2C%2Bavailability%2C-daterank&field-author-exact=Gentile%2C%20Gary

Why do you feel Gary's version is THE CORRECT AND ACCURATE DETAIL of accounts on a dive for which he wasn't present? I have not heard of anyone else who was actually on the dives with any BIG beef.

 

[joe rock]

I have talked with Gary, and even gave him a ride at the Florida Dive show. His ego did not seem to be all that big and the discussion was over many topics. He surely did not seem to need to be the center of attention. Gary has contributed to our portal, and I hope he does so again.

I have had a few beers with John at the Chicago show last year and then had a few meals with him down in the Keys when we took Matt diving. I am not sure he has an ego. If he does, he sure hid it well. The man was down to earth as they come. He is quick with a joke and quick to laugh at other's jokes as well.

Somehow, I can see either man laughing at this thread. It would fit their respective personalities. To be so misunderstood and/or maligned is part and parcel of being among the creme de la creme. So, let's just call 'am both "strokes" and get it over with. They are both living kinda large, and most of us would just love to be in their shoes.

Pete, I've added a few comments here over its life. I have no problem with either man. I have many of Gary's wreck books since there are 4 on Jersey wrecks. It's our brethern on SB that choose to attack each that prompts my comments.

Happy Holidays

 

[H2Andy]

I have talked with Gary, and even gave him a ride at the Florida Dive show. His ego did not seem to be all that big and the discussion was over many topics. He surely did not seem to need to be the center of attention. Gary has contributed to our portal, and I hope he does so again.

the man's a legend... no doubt about it

now, this book... wish he'd thought it over twice before writing it. i mean, basically, he just came out swinging and making alleagations ... what did he think would happen?

 

[JeffG]

Chatterton knew about it:
p. 108, Shadow Divers Exposed, Gary Gentile:

"On the boat after the dive, Chatterton displayed abject annoyance at McBeth for entering the electric motor room ahead of him, and at having his penetration pre-empted. Although McBeth's route was simple and direct, it lacked the staginess and histrionics that Chatterton performed for the camera."

The hoax in this case was hamming the penetration for the camera.

I talked to someone that was there and I will take his word over yours.

You seem to have an axe to grind here.

 

[Hoyden]

the man's a legend... no doubt about it

now, this book... wish he'd thought it over twice before writing it. i mean, basically, he just came out swinging and making alleagations ... what did he think would happen?

Buy his book? Shadow Divers was a mainstream best seller, even appearing on the NY Times bestseller list and winning an ABA book award. If one in twenty people who bought Shadow Divers bought Gary's rebuttal book, it would be his best selling book yet.

Jackie

 

[tonka97]

No axes need grinding here. Just thoughtful reflection, and an open mind.

It's so d**n inconvenient when well researched information demolishes a cherished work of fiction. I had read S Divers 4 times, along with Audible unabridged format. I still will cherish it as the fiction it is.

Suggest consulting with Pat Rooney and John Yurga regarding what happened.

Oops! Though they were on the dive with Kohler and Chatterton to recover 'Der Tag', Shady Divers described ONLY our 2 intrepid SCUBA heroes being on the dive. Interesting omission, kind of like Will McBeth's flashing strobe light that ruined Chatterton's 'achievement'.

You do know that the author Kurson, author of the 3 stooges cookbook, was hired to write this story by Chatterton, don't you??

You also know in 1993 it was common knowledge among the wreck diving community that the sub was U-869?

Remember the part of S Divers crediting Mark McKellar? No?? McKellar was the historian that discovered, in 1992, the ULTRA information that U-869 was working its way across the Atlantic towards the exact area that the sub was found. McKellar's ULTRA revelations 'turned the last months [history] of the American U-boat campaign into complete disarray' (p.61, Gentile, Shadow Divers Exposed)

McKellar gave this ULTRA information to Chatterton in 1993. Along with the Horenburg knife discovery, it was clear that the 'mystery sub' was U-869.



The author, Gary Gentile, does not come across as egotistical or sour grapes chewing. He is very quick to give credit to MANY wreck divers and researchers who were important in the discovery, exploration, and identification of U-869. His criticism includes shameless egotism and self-aggrandisement of Chatterton and Kohler, facilitated by vanity writer Robert Kurson.

Alert: Continued ad hominem attacks incoming!!! :11:

Back to Bonaire dreams, 7 months and counting....

 

[ReefHound]

Suggest consulting with Pat Rooney and John Yurga regarding what happened.

Oops! Though they were on the dive with Kohler and Chatterton to recover 'Der Tag', Shady Divers described ONLY our 2 intrepid SCUBA heroes being on the dive. Interesting omission, kind of like Will McBeth's flashing strobe light that ruined Chatterton's 'achievement'.

Did Shadow Divers say they were not in the water. An omission does not make the account fiction.

You do know that the author Kurson, author of the 3 stooges cookbook, was hired to write this story by Chatterton, don't you??

Do you? How so? Link, please.

You also know in 1993 it was common knowledge among the wreck diving community that the sub was U-869?

"Knowing" or "believing" a wreck to be a certain ship is quite different from confirming it with physical evidence. As the book repeatedly pointed out, often "common knowledge" and historical fact turns out to be incorrect.

 

[tonka97]

Buy his book? Shadow Divers was a mainstream best seller, even appearing on the NY Times bestseller list and winning an ABA book award. If one in twenty people who bought Shadow Divers bought Gary's rebuttal book, it would be his best selling book yet.

Jackie

I bought a copy of Shadow Divers, and purchased the unabridged audio version. The book sold like hotcakes. It was actually not written that well, relying on cooked up scenes to keep the reader turning pages. I haven't studied Kurson's "The Three Stooges Cookbook", so I will withhold my comments on that piece of non-fiction.

The major problem: Shadow Divers should have been listed as FICTION.

Clive Cussler writes FAR better SCUBA literature, both fiction and non-fiction. I highly recommend his books.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clive_Cussler