Shadow Divers – Exposed U 869

[tonka97]

Yea some hoax. Chatterton and his gang didn't know about that passage when they did the dive. They heard about it after.

Chatterton knew about it:
p. 108, Shadow Divers Exposed, Gary Gentile:

"On the boat after the dive, Chatterton displayed abject annoyance at McBeth for entering the electric motor room ahead of him, and at having his penetration pre-empted. Although McBeth's route was simple and direct, it lacked the staginess and histrionics that Chatterton performed for the camera."

The hoax in this case was hamming the penetration for the camera.

There are many other hoaxes documented in the book.

From Gary Gentile's website: "Archival documents have established that the U-boat [U-869] was sunk by two American destroyer escorts. Seven crewmembers of those aggressive warships have supplemented the official record with their personal recollections. Shadow Divers Exposed works on a multitude of levels. It presents the actual circumstances that surrounded the loss of the U-869. It puts the discovery of the U-869 into perspective with other U-boats that have been found in American waters. It provides an overview of the U-boat war through accounts of other U-boat losses. And it corrects some of the gross errors, wild exaggerations, and deliberate distortions that filled the pages of Shadow Divers."

There is also a LOT of real information about the U Boats and wrecks of the WWII era in Shadow Divers Exposed. (About 1/2 the book is about topics that expand BEYOND the many hoaxes of Shadow Divers)

For those who haven't read Gary Gentiles book Shadow Divers Exposed, there is always the "Ultimate Knucklehead's Guide to Stoogedom" by Robert Kurson.
Nyuk, Nyuk, Nyuk!

 

[amascuba]

we'll just make you the expert on the subject since you were on the expeditions and know everything there is to know about what happened and who it happened to.

 

[tonka97]

we'll just make you the expert on the subject since you were on the expeditions and know everything there is to know about what happened and who it happened to.

Just read the book and form your own opinion. Don't get entangled in the 'competition'!
I consider Gary Gentile to be expert on the subject of wreck diving.
I certainly am not, but I do enjoy learning.
Thanks Gary for a great read!

http://www.ggentile.com/sdexposed.html
http://www.amazon.com/Technical-Div...xt_10/002-1199434-3472000/002-1199434-3472000
http://www.amazon.com/s/002-1199434...ty,-daterank&field-author-exact=Gentile, Gary

 

[H2Andy]

I consider Gary Gentile to be expert on the subject of wreck diving.

no question

he's also a prima donna with a huge ego and the bad habit of writing down what most poeople are happy to ***** about over a few beers with friends

this is all about Gary's ego, and he is plain mad that other people ended up with book rights and a television show instead of him, who deserves it most of all (in his mind)

even if he were right about what he says, his bitterness and the sheer venom that comes out of his book would turn me away. it's just a personal thing, and i'll be damned if i pay to read about it.

 

[The Horn]

Should be a good read,

I take anything I read, including this reply I'm writing, as a work of fiction. Newspaper articles only cover bits and pieces, as we are now all over the NET we are finding that documented history is partially fiction and bent into a twist of propaganda, moral boosting, ego stroking etc.

No matter how you look at something the guy standing beside you will see it slightly different.

How did the U-boat sink....who cares (unless you were on it) ....it did. The only people who can say why are the ones who were on it. The divers would have to ask them. anything else is pure speculation whether educated or not

Take all that you read with some sceptsizm. I did this.... you did that.....but I thought..

As you discover the problem is just an unplugged extension cord......do you tell the fellas the truth or do you try and justify the two hours of trouble shooting

 

[tonka97]

How did the U-boat sink....who cares (unless you were on it) ....it did. The only people who can say why are the ones who were on it. The divers would have to ask them. anything else is pure speculation whether educated or not

The crews of the Howard D. Crow and the Koiner who depth charged and hedgehogged the U-869 may care.

Ken Denson, George King, Harold Muth, Robert Quigley, and Ted Siviec from the Howard D. Crow care.

Charles Judson and Ralph Kern from the Koiner care.

They observed the 1/2 mile oil slick after their attacks on the pinged sub.

I certainly care, and applaud their actions!
:yelclap:

 

[The Horn]

Point is..... it sank. No sense getting bent outta shape about the hows and whys. The boys on the ships believe they sank it....great. But for all anyone knows it could have been little Adolf dropping a detonator when a depth charge rocked the U-boat that ACTUALLY sank it....

Enjoy the books, no sense getting all bent outta shape.....

Lots of wrecks that are claimed to be "discovered" by so and so turn out to have been looted years before...still make great stories.

 

[amascuba]

Just read the book and form your own opinion. Don't get entangled in the 'competition'!
I consider Gary Gentile to be expert on the subject of wreck diving.
I certainly am not, but I do enjoy learning.
Thanks Gary for a great read!

http://www.ggentile.com/sdexposed.html
http://www.amazon.com/Technical-Div...xt_10/002-1199434-3472000/002-1199434-3472000
http://www.amazon.com/s/002-1199434...ty,-daterank&field-author-exact=Gentile, Gary

I'm familiar with Gary's work. Point is Gary wasn't on site during the expeditions to the site that I'm aware of. Gary does have a huge ego and doesn't like other people getting attention that he feels he deserves as H2Andy pointed out. Most of the information in his book is irreverent and portrays opinions as facts.

 

[jeffrey-c]

To be objective about this whole thing, it seems that everyone involved has strong egos (Chatterton, Koehler, Gentile). Kurson's book had a skew to entertain and bring to life a group of characters and a situation, and it likely took some liberties with the facts. Similarly, Gentile's book has a purpose and theme as well, to discredit Kurson's work plus Chatterton and Koehler, and as such it do doubt takes some pretty strong liberties with the truth. Shadow Divers is without doubt an entertaining read, and one of the few books one can find that even gets non-divers hooked on the topic (my wife loved it). It offers some theory and conjecture, and doesn't try to claim it is the definitive truth. By contrast, Gentile's book exists only because Shadow Divers was published, and if he didn't dwell on the discrepancies it wouldn't have a reason to exist. I prefer my literature to be original and entertaining and not destructive and caustic, and hence prefer Shadow Divers as a book and hence also give it a little more credence. But they're both just books, written to sell.

 

[rawls]

They observed the 1/2 mile oil slick after their attack on the pinged sub.

Does that prove they were the ones who sank it. That is pure speculation...If the 869 did fall victim to its own torpedo then that's why they saw an oil slick. The ping was an already sunken sub. Thing is the US Navy had no idea the sub was even out there until Nagle took Chatterton and some other divers to the site and Chatterton dived down to take a look. All the records showed that sub as sunk off Gibraltar...Uh...We didn't know it was there...but we musta sunk it...Years later SD comes out as does all the worms trying to steal the show...If the Navy did sink it and they saw the oil slick then why didn't they know where it was. We sank the ship but we thought we were in Gibraltar...I like what the Horn had to say...There is no such thing as fact in the written word. Chatterton has said before that the circle runner idea was just his "view." He never once said it was written in stone. It's was just his thoughts. And like the Horn said...none of us know the real circumstances of the sinking...not me, not you, not Gentile...I will repeat what I have asked numerous times regarding Gary the Great...Who does he think the book should have been written about? Should it have been some other than Chatterton and Kohler...Do tell...