Shadow Divers – Exposed U 869

[billyh]

Hilti,

Our sport is an ever-evolving one. What may have been considered inconceivable ten years ago may be commonplace today. What may have been considered state-of-the-art ten years ago might be considered dangerous today.

Gary's popular book on Wreck Diving falls into the latter category. A bit of what he "teaches" could get one into trouble. Nothing a bit of re-write and a new printing couldn't fix, but then the publisher (or Author?) does not apparently think there is enough profit to be had in giving you better and safer information. . . or as you call it Education.

Just as reading a Grisham novel will not make you a lawyer, reading anyone else's book on diving will not make the reader a diver. Don't get me wrong here. . . I read everything I can get my hands on, but for my money, if I could pay that mythical $175 to actually dive with a Kohler or Chatterton, or Gentile, or Irvine, or Jablonski (and be allowed to ask a lot of pestering questions!) I would. Living, breathing, experienced Divers (emphasis on living) are far more valuable than out-of-date and possibly dangerous information in "dusty old books".

There is an "old timer" running a dive operation here in New England, "forever". He also has books you can buy that proport to teach one how to dive correctly. Reading this stuff is like stepping into a time machine. . . it is as if the last twenty years of dive technology and practice had never happened. (You'll love the section where you are taught how to make your own snorkel from copper tubing!). Old School perspectives can be informative, but please don't make the mistake of believing everything you may read, even if the author is an icon of the craft. Heck, even Presidents and Prime Ministers get things wrong sometimes!

 

[hilti]

Billyh,
I understand that this (sport?) is ever evolving, in a technical aspect as well as practice. I don't know that any of the fundamental info from Gary's books has changed to dramatically (the edition I have was copywritten 2001 and discusses mixed gas through trimix as well as rebreathers) really my point is that without any knowledge of these fellas beyond what I've read I've chosen to remain objective. (I like Crighton and Clancy too.)

 

[paulthenurse]

There is an "old timer" running a dive operation here in New England, "forever". He also has books you can buy that proport to teach one how to dive correctly. Reading this stuff is like stepping into a time machine. . . it is as if the last twenty years of dive technology and practice had never happened. (You'll love the section where you are taught how to make your own snorkel from copper tubing!). Old School perspectives can be informative, but please don't make the mistake of believing everything you may read, even if the author is an icon of the craft. Heck, even Presidents and Prime Ministers get things wrong sometimes!

I REALLY wanted to get some copper pipe, sweat a snorkle together and bring it along the last time we went out with Fred, but my GF squashed that idea. Her motive was totally selfish, she didn't want to listen to another lecture on how things were better when they were simpler. Actually, my favorite part of Freds book is the part where he gives detailed instructions on how to make yourself a pair of fins out of some old sneakers and some scrap plywood, and how he scraped the silver off the back of his mothers hand mirror to fashion a mask.

There was a time when a horse was a great way to get around, it beat the hell out of walking. Funny, Fred doesn't walk to the boat. Hmmmmm!

 

[texdiveguy]

Just today ordered my copy of the new book.....interesting reading I hear.

 

[rawls]

I am currently reading Deep Descent by Kevin McMurray. Also read Dark Descent by him about the Empress of Ireland. Both great books. In Deep Descent Gary Gentile is not looked on very favorably at some points in the book. He is described, in so many words, as a pretty self-serving, above the rest egotist. Steve Bielenda finally kicked him off the Wahoo after Gentile had an altercation with Janet Bieser, Bielenda's co-captain. He is a legendary diver no doubt, as he deserves to be, but this book doesn't wax very favorably on him based on opinions of other crew members and Bielenda himself...

 

[shoupart]

Why is there so much egotism in experienced divers? Has anybody else noticed this?
I see it around here all the time in shops and things (particularly toward me, being just 26 years old), and I've heard it plenty of dives around tropical dive places. They always say there's at least 1 punk who thinks it beneath him to deign to answer a DM who asks how their buoyancy skills or whatever are before they dive the site. Or they refuse to listen or comply with the DM's requests, etc.

By the way, I LOVED Shadow Divers- Great book!

 

[texdiveguy]

Why is there so much egotism in experienced divers? Has anybody else noticed this?
I see it around here all the time in shops and things (particularly toward me, being just 26 years old), and I've heard it plenty of dives around tropical dive places. They always say there's at least 1 punk who thinks it beneath him to deign to answer a DM who asks how their buoyancy skills or whatever are before they dive the site. Or they refuse to listen or comply with the DM's requests, etc.

By the way, I LOVED Shadow Divers- Great book!

Just human nature with some folks......I see it alot agong certain divers---to bad....we all have more we can learn each day. As a DM it is our part to maintaine civil control over all divers entrusted to us via class or hired commercial outing/charter---I learn plenty from other divers and many much younger than I.....I am a bit older than you so might not get the flak as much from other divers as you do. Just take it with a grain-of-salt.....do whats right,,,listen,,,comply when its safe/right, and always ask questions for clarification. I have not read the new book having just ordered it....read 'all' the others and am a fan of sorts of J.C.. Good luck in your diving....plenty of wonderful guys/gals in scuba,,,don't sweat the jerks!!

 

[rawls]

read 'all' the others and am a fan of sorts of J.C.. Good luck in your diving....plenty of wonderful guys/gals in scuba,,,don't sweat the jerks!!

Very well put...ego is a curtain behind which fear resides. Strength burns in the light of humility knowing things are not all about us, which yeilds the desire to help another human being. In this case, an experienced diver who thrives on sharing his or her experience with other less experienced divers. These are the ones to stick close to and let the ego laden have only themselves to impress. John Chatterton is one of those who thrives on giving his time to others no matter what their experience level. I have seen it first hand and, unlike Gentile, I have never heard a bad word spoken about him. He will be in Morehead City, NC in a week and a half for the Mike Norwood Memorial Dive. Very much looking forward to being there...

 

[ReefHound]

Judgements even before hearing/reading what the guy has to say:huh:.

I heard what he had to say in his newsletter and I have no respect for or interest in hearing anything further from someone so consumed with bitterness and hatred that he has to elevate himself by disparaging others. Gentile should run for political office, he would fit right in. Substitute "George Bush" for "Shadow Divers" and it sounded just like a Kerry 2004 campaign speech.

Not once did Gentile concede a nickel or give a dime credit to JC or RK. Frankly, if Kurson says an event occurred one way and Gentile says it occurred another, I'm inclined to believe Kurson.

 

[H2Andy]

unfortunately gentile is not doing himself any favors with this book