Self Reliant Diving Required?

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I am SDI Advanced Solo and I fullfilled the requirements with a pony and second reg augmenting my single tank back gas wearing a swimsuit and rash guard and a double hose PRAM as primary. I am not DIR and solo dived for over 40 years starting before there were buoyancy compensators or spgs in common use. SDI Advanced Diver Solo certification does not require DIR methods (which requires a team) nor Hog rigging.

N
 
I have been ruminating on this all morning, and my post is a bit long. But, the questions posed get to the heart of several important aspects of diving and dive training.
mick allein III:
Why is buddy diving the rule or rather nonredundancy the rule?
You are asking two questions, and it is useful to separate them. Buddy diving is a standard of practice for many reasons, some based on data, some based on experience, some probably based on habit as much as anything. In watersports, the buddy system is often taught in swimming, in life guard training, etc, not just in diving. I cannot count the number of times I said, as a teenage lifeguard, to a solo swimmer in a pool full of 12 year olds, ‘Where is your buddy?'. In diving, Cousteau wrote about the (value of the) buddy system as long ago as 1953. Having a dive buddy provides specific redundancy – an independent air supply, a second set of eyes, a second brain. So, advocacy of the buddy system in diving is the very opposite of ‘nonredundancy’. As an aside, the buddy concept goes well beyond diving - in military flight operations, the ‘wingman’ concept; in commercial aviation, having two pilots in the cockpit is the rule. In other aspects of training, there is the 'swim buddy' system, or the concept of 'mutually supporting pairs'. The list of examples is long and easily crosses disciplinary boundaries. Where the buddy system has become a target for criticism, in diving in particular, is a situation where there are ‘insta-buddy’ pairings that are simply mis-matches, or pairings of divers where one (or both) are simply not capable of functioning as a competent dive buddy (two brains, and not a single thought between them). Neither of these situations meet the intent of the buddy system, beyond providing even numbers (pairs). In fact, the SDI Solo Diver manual even explicitly states that the ‘SDI solo diver course has been designed to teach you a series of skills and procedures to help you counteract Bad Buddy Syndrome . . .’. But, unfortunately, those situations have too easily become a basis for wholesale dismissal of the value, utility, and social enjoyment of the buddy system, which is simply ridiculous. If anything, criticism should be directed toward what appears to be grossly inadequate indoctrination of divers in the responsibilities, processes and procedures of buddy system to begin with. The buddy system is not perfect, and outside of diving - commercial aviation for example - examples of mismatched buddies also exist (Germanwings and EgyptAir), as do examples of reasonably matched and comparably under-skilled buddies (Air France). As should be the case in in diving, none of these situations are taken as an appropriate basis for dismissing the value of a buddy system. Rather, they argue for better training and selection of buddies. I dive solo / alone / by myself on a regular basis. I dive with a limited number of selected buddies on a regular basis, perhaps more often than by myself. Diving alone or with a buddy is not an either-or situation – I do both. But, in both circumstances, I do everything I can to be as self-reliant as possible. I did two ocean dives yesterday, with 3 buddies, and we dove together at times and apart at times on each dive, but we always dove self-reliantly as individuals. And, a substantial part of the enjoyment of the overall experience was sitting at lunch afterward, with some refreshing adult beverages, talking, and laughing, about what we did, what we saw.

In contrast, I am not sure that ‘nonredundancy’ is a rule, or that active non-redundancy is taught at any level in scuba training, or encouraged at any level in diving. As noted, the buddy system is a primary form of redundancy that is taught from the beginning of training across the majority of agencies. But, various aspects of dive training also emphasize redundancy of equipment, which has become something of a secondary focus in this thread. Whether a diver chooses to dive without redundant equipment is a personal choice. For example, there are a few threads on SB where posters advocate eliminating the SPG in favor of wireless air integration, with the ostensible benefit of reducing the number of hoses. Others argue that, while wireless air integration is great and convenient, the reliance on it is ‘riskier’ than reliance on the traditional hose-based SPG, and having a back-up to the wireless unit is desirable. Well, in fact, what is the back-up if a hose-linked SPG fails?
mick allein III:
Wouldn't it make sense for all divers to be trained and equipped for self rescue. Even if they were part of a team/pair?
Absolutely! I would much prefer to dive with the confidence that I have the ability to take care of the vast majority of ‘things’ that might go wrong during a dive. Having that ability makes me a better diver, more important it makes me a better dive buddy. And, I want the buddy I am with to have an equivalent level of competence. The very first exercise in the PADI Rescue Diver course, as one example and probably consistent with many other agency offering, is a ‘Self-Rescue Review’. A substantial part of the first chapter in the Rescue Diver manual is devoted to Self-Rescue. I have no doubt that the materials of other agencies are similar. Whether all aspects of self-rescue are best taught as part of a single, longer, more comprehensive entry-level dive training course, or progressively across several courses, is a separate issue. The fundamental point remains – it is better if all divers are trained and equipped for self-rescue. In fact, self-rescue training does begin in the majority of entry-level dive courses. The CESA is part of self-rescue. Cramp-removal is part of self-rescue. Emergency weight drop is part of self-rescue.

As for equipment, much of what a diver chooses to use is also a matter of choice, or as one poster has repeatedly characterized it:
scubadude223:
In my opinion. . . . in my opinion
The training / certification agencies – with possibly a couple of particular exceptions – are general rather than specific in their specification of equipment requirements and recommendations. One example of an agency recommendation on redundancy is, ‘Carrying a backup for any equipment that is either critical for survival or critical to the dive objective’s success.’ Makes sense. Air is critical to my survival underwater. So, a redundant air supply would qualify as a necessary item of redundancy. (A 'backup' air supply according to the agency could be anything from a Spare Air to a set of backmounted double 130s with an isolator manifold. As an instructor teaching the course, I do not allow a Spare Air to be carried as a redundant air supply - my prerogative, not an agency requirement - and have not yet been confronted with a student who wanted to use the 130s, but would have no problem with that, if the student was facile in their use.) If I am in a dark environment, a light may be critical to my survival, so a back-up light would be a necessary item of redundancy. A redundant cutting tool might be critical, although that is debatable – many divers do not carry a primary cutting tool, much less a redundant one.

One poster has taken a rather enthusiastic stance on several issues, and made some statements that appear to be at variance with fact. Several of these, regarding equipment requirements, have already been discounted with facts. But, for the record:
scubadude:
PADI Will not teach it. The reason they don't want self reliance is because they think that it will encourage People to dive alone
This is complete, uninformed rubbish. No further comment needed.
scubadude223:
PADI Self reliant diver might teach certain things similar but they do not go as far and say Solo
A knowledgeable (as opposed to simply uninformed and opinionated) comparison of the content and standards of the PADI Self-Reliant Diver and SDI Solo Diver courses leads to the conclusion that they are far more similar than dis-similar, irrespective of the name. I readily admit, as a PADI instructor, that my first reaction when I learned of the Self-Reliant Diver course was not altogether different – PADI just can’t bring itself to use the term ‘solo’. But, the more I thought about it, and considered the actual content of the course, I came to believe (without even drinking any Kool-Aid) that ‘self-reliant’ is actually in many ways a better, more inclusive, and more accurate description, than ‘solo’. The purpose of the PADI course is to the development of skills that allow a diver to be self-reliant, whether they choose to dive as part of a buddy pair, as part of a multi-diver team, or solo / along / by themselves. That is really the purpose of the SDI course as well. The SDI course prepares a diver to engage in solo diving. The course does not promote solo diving as a better approach than buddy diving (other than avoiding Bad Buddy syndrome), only as an alternative. (An individual instructor might do so, but that is another matter, entirely.) The Solo Diver manual even states, ‘. . . solo diving and certification . . . is . . . for many divers . . . wanting to enjoy the freedom offered by self-reliant diving . . .’. To view the SDI course only in the context of the word ‘solo’ actually does a disservice to the course. As Alexander Pope asserted in 1709, ‘A little learning is a dangerous thing.’
 
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I am an SDI certified solo diver, but I prefer to dive as a team with friends. Since my solo training, I always dive redundant. I feel more comfortable knowing that I have what I need to take care of myself. I feel like I am a better diver.

Why is buddy diving the rule or rather nonredundancy the rule? Wouldn't it make sense for all divers to be trained and equipped for self rescue. Even if they were part of a team/pair?

There's a good reason why PADI requires 100 dives to get solo rated, and that is to have the experience and the wisdom (hopefully) to handle any emergency. New divers are dealing with mask clearing, sinus clearing, buoyancy issues, and just plain getting-used-to-the-equipment issues to be able to handle switching to a secondary gas source. If they have an octo they've never practiced removing their reg which is a must for solo in an OOA emergency. It would be nice if new divers were trained this way but frankly it's asking for too much.
 
There's a good reason why PADI requires 100 dives to get solo rated, and that is to have the experience and the wisdom (hopefully) to handle any emergency. New divers are dealing with mask clearing, sinus clearing, buoyancy issues, and just plain getting-used-to-the-equipment issues to be able to handle switching to a secondary gas source. If they have an octo they've never practiced removing their reg which is a must for solo in an OOA emergency. It would be nice if new divers were trained this way but frankly it's asking for too much.

I suspect it is more likely that PADI requires 100 dives because SDI already required 100 dives. The courses are almost identical, including a 600 foot surface swim in full gear.
 
I am not trying to attack any opinion.

I was saying that SDI has a specific list of what they require.

That was the first part of my point, the second was my opinion regarding a safe solo dive. I don't mean to confuse anyone regarding the issue. Most of you have much more experience than myself. I appreciate the input regarding these issues. You don't need the list that I made, but in certain conditions I would want to have that.
 
I was saying that SDI has a specific list of what they require

Yes, but as several people, including at least one SDI solo instructor has mentioned, your list is not the list of what SDI requires for the solo course.

You don't need the list that I made, but in certain conditions I would want to have that.

Of course, in certain conditions you would want many of those things, but apart from the redundant gas supply, none of those are particularly necessary for solo diving.

In cold water you would want a dry suit, but this would not be appropriate for many other dives, solo or otherwise.

In long dives into areas with no ambient light, you might need a high quality canister light with a long burn time.

I think the one that annoyed people the most was your arbitrary threshold of $1000 for a safe regulator! Solo or team, you need a good reg, and those can be had at all price levels. That's a common misconception, that you need to spend a lot for "life support equipment" to be safe.



I hope that you don't think that we are beating up on you. It's just important that since new divers read these threads, that we clarify things that don't seem right.
 
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The standard buddy team system, here I am defending it, is entirely adequate and has served the majority of divers well from the beginnings of the sport. Each diver is not complete without the other, the buddy team system relies upon two divers with each providing the redundancy (I am tiring of that word) for the other. Together they are a complete system, apart the buddies are not equipped to survive or taught to survive alone. It is both sufficient when done properly and deficient when the divers do not act as a team. Thus the team concept being stressed but unfortunately Basic SCUBA classes do not stress the WHY of the buddy system, only that there should be one. Thus when a buddy team separates by accident it is important to follow correct procedures, look around and then surface. It is important to maintain contact and not get separated to begin with. New divers are taught this but most have no real understanding of the redundancy (that word again) built into the system.

The DIR method relies upon a team but each diver is rigged and trained to self rescue and survival even in the event of a separation. And they are taught the importance of the team concept and thus it works and works well. Each diver is a complete unit to his/her self. But this is simply overkill for typical recreational diving and it is not and never will be the mainstream of recreational SCUBA.

The solo diver, per the SDI and PADI instructional material, is a complete system. Unlike the buddy team, the solo diver is prepared to survive alone. At least if equipped per the SDI and PSDI requirements. However, neither agency requires a doubles rig or drysuit or a can light for solo diving. Certainly there are places that would be prudent but the solo diver can and should not always dive the same rig but should instead have a MEL (listed by SDI and PADI) and then add whatever additional gear needed to complete successfully the planned dive. This is why the 100 dive requirement is placed on the Advanced OW Solo certified diver, so they will have the experience and judgement to decide what equipment they need above that MEL and judge as well their preparedness and the dive site conditions at that specific time of entry, Go-No Go.

Both SDI and PADI mean by redundant air source, a pony, independent doubles or isolation manifolded doubles or similar rigs. There is no requirement for DIR methods (not compatible) and Hogarthian dive rigs. I am not going to argue in this context that some very experienced solo divers, for certain types of low risk dives (low risk being relative to their experience and familiarity with the dive site and risk tolerance) use the surface as redundancy. But, this is outside of the MEL provided by both PADI and SDI for the solo diver.

As a life long solo diver and now SDI certified as such, I would expect to be allowed to practice my solo diving from any place I wish as long as I have met the MEL required by the PADI/SDI accepted standards. I will as well continue to use the surface as my redundancy from my own boat or certain shore dives as I see fit within the limitations I place upon myself based on experience.

This entire thread is another perfect example of why the Solo Sub Forum needs to be removed from the Tech Forum and placed in the Advanced OW Forum. Bot the SDI and the PADI solo certs are recreational advanced diver certs, they are not technical diver certs. I also would agree that discussions within such a forum should remain within the framework of the two current solo diver certifications.

On the other hand, maybe there needs to be no forum at all for solo and solo discussions should simply be allowed in either the Basic or Advanced or Technical forums as they come up rather than being banned to what was once a hidden sub forum in the Tech Forum. What has changed, a lot has changed, guys, there are two Advanced Open Water Diver Solo certifications! The discussion of solo is a legitimate activity accepted and taught by two of the biggest names in the industry as RECREATIONAL SCUBA. That PADI is parsing words and is choking on the word solo at least they have stepped up. NAUI, what gives, grow a set.

N
 
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I think it is interesting that people think solo diving, or as the OP suggested, diving in a more self reliant manner, has to be an all or nothing, start from zero proposition. Modern diving instruction and certification is not designed that way. First you get OW and, hopefully, spend some time doing dives in the 0-60' range in benign conditions. When you have acquired some skills you then can do an AOW course which introduces you to deeper diving, night diving etc... more challenging conditions. Self reliance would be a part of this continuum. Certainly it seems logical that a recreational diver could/should be taught to be self reliant if they can also be taught Rescue Diver skills.
 
I would be willing to bet scubadude223's dive shop owner is going someplace nice for vacation this year.
 
In my opinion the level of self reliance required increases as visibility decreases. I couldn't imagine many divers who regularly dive with 10ft/3.0m vis (or less) not having self reliance.
 
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