Seeking Opinions on Troubling Incident

[redacted]

I'm not saying that it makes the action any better, but is there any chance that whatever happened was not done maliciously, but was instead horseplay? Perhaps the Instructor mistook the student for someone else and decided that it was OK to mess with them?

It doesn't make it right, but intent can be a big factor when it comes to how the end-game shakes out. "Oops, I thought you were my old buddy Bob" vs "Hey, kid, this is MY platform, GTFO".

I'm sure there is a chance that there is a perfectly reasonable explanation. If so, either the offending party does not know of this thread or he just chooses not to participate. There is no doubt in my mind that that names will eventually be know and maybe even posted.

 

[gypsyjim]

, either the offending party does not know of this thread or he just chooses not to participate. There is no doubt in my mind that that names will eventually be know and maybe even posted.

Not sure about other areas, but in my experience only a small percentage of divers participate in SB. Unless he is informed of this discussion he may not be aware it exists. And then there are those who think it is beneath them to even acknowledge it's existence.
Since I was not a witness it's hard to judge, but on it's surface the incident certainly is cause for concern, and follow up with operator and agency involved.

But then again, why no lynch him anyway? Rile up a nice mob and you don't have to get all wishy washy with guilt or innocence!

 

[Acadian]

as a student I probably wouldn't have filed battery charges and all that law stuff, cause it costs time and money and it's not my style.

probably would have waited on the surface and not so politely asked him what he was thinking and why he was such a dick to me, then taken his mask, duct tape it to his weight belt and throw it as far as I can back in the water. Then left.

but that's just me

 

[Steve_Dives]

I hope to hear the reply from the quarry owner. If it were me I'd be livid, if it were my instructor or someone else's. Someone pulling that stunt ON MY PROPERTY! It will be interesting to hear the other side.

Your instructor acted very professionally in separating the student from that situation. I could see someone not completing their check outs or being very hesitant to go diving again. Heck, even camp overnight there. Hopefully the students have heard that it is unusual behavior.

Not sure how a shove from behind is appropriate. If there was some imminent danger OK. Otherwise, why not a fin tug, at tap on the shoulder, or an OK sign? Hope we hear what provoked it.

Accident reports always strike me for two reasons. One is the chain of events. The other is that such trivial things are key to the death. The BC inflator that wasn't connected. A left post that was not turned on. The reg that free flows. Being shoved from behind seems to be a much more severe situation.

 

[BettyRubble]

I'm about to do my OW dives for cert and can tell you if that happened,

1) I'd have to focus on not panicing. I"m a whopping 5'2 and have learned on land that I have to not appear weak or bullied in these situations. I can manage myself on land. But being underwater, new and barely trained, I wonder how I'd react. Piss'd doesn't begin describe it. But I hope my focus would be on getting myself safely to the surface.

2) As a woman, I'd be even more appalled that it is possible to be assaulted underwater. Sounds like it was all guys involved but still very disturbing.

3) The sport is safe when we all conduct ourselves appropriately. If someone clearly doesn't conduct themselves safely/appropriately, the dive community must act on that. Otherwise, this person potentially endangers anyone he dives with or near.

So, if it were me, I'd want my instructor to notify the quarry & the other instructor's dive shop of what happened and demand sanctions of some sort. I'd probably want to contact the police to file an assault charge, but it would require some thought. I hope the quarry would ban the instrutor for a period of time and his DS would require an anger management class.

I'd be curious to hear what you decide to do.

As a shop owner I hear a lot of things... so before I jump to any rash decisions on this one, I'm asking for help from both sides of the aisle. I'd like to hear from recently certified students on this - as well as Instructors... as the incident involves both.

One of my Instructors called me yesterday afternoon to report an incident that had occurred at a local quarry. I'll try to keep the story as short as possible.

My Instructor was on the last dive of a two day open water checkout with two students. They were on their way back from doing a dive and at the end of the dive, one of the students stopped on a platform at a depth of 20ft to do his safety stop.

At the time, an Instructor from another shop had a single student on this platform doing some skills. I'll preface the rest of the story by saying the platform is large enough to reasonably fit 6 people on it. So now there are three people on it. My Instructors student, the Instructor from the other shop and that Instructors student.

My Instructor and his other student are hovering just off the platform.

The Instructor from the other shop inexplicably swims over to our student and shoves him very hard off the platform causing our student to lose his balance from a kneeling position.

So here are my questions for anyone with an opinion.

1. As a student, how would you feel if that happened to you and what would you want done about it?

2. As an Instructor, would you ever do such a thing and if so, what justification do you think you have to do so in a public quarry.

3. Had you been our Instructor in this incident, what would you have done underwater at the time of the incident or later after the incident if given the opportunity?

4. Would any of you go back to that quarry if you knew the assaulting Instructor was an Instructor working at that quarry's dive shop?

I know what I want to do and what I would have done had I been in the water at the time... as well as what I would have done out of the water afterwards... but I also know that wouldn't have been pretty... so I'm looking for opinions on how a calmer, cooler, collected me may respond when the time is appropriate.

My Instructor who reported this to me spent his time grabbing our student and pulling him away... which I think was appropriate. Afterwards he had no opportunity to address the matter - and called me instead.

In any event, thanks in advance for your thoughts on this one... has anyone else out there had a similar incident?

 

[paddler3d]

I think we should make ALL OW students either wear a sign that says I AM NEW LEAVE ME ALONE, or all wear pink wetsuits, after all pink is the new black.

What, the snorkel doesn't give it away? How about the bouncing off the bottom? Diving wet when everyone else is dry? The arms and legs flailing all over the place? Playing their inflator like flute?

Sorry I had to.

 

[paddler3d]

Just a quick question, how deep was the bottom near said platform?

Maybe 25 ft if you put your hand in the mud.

 

[paddler3d]

Wow!

I guess I know now why I'm not going to the non above mentioned quarry this Sunday!

It was the same quarry and the same shop that lost a student a few weeks ago on the 9th, if it was the same instructor, could you chalk it up to PTSD? Could the offending shop be experiencing a PTSD of sorts? They lost a student and took them a while to find him, maybe they are now being a bit over protective?

Ft. Campbell just 'stood down' for three days for the base to get training on suicide prevention. Maybe they could do something similar?

Got to love the Army mentality. 'We going to suspend operations so you guys can get your s&^t together and stop killing yourselves.'

Psyched that one of my dive buddies isn't too psyched about going back to that quarry.

I think this is excellent opportunity for Beaver Dam quarry to consider the marketing opportunity and think about all the money they are loosing to guys going North of the Mason Dixon line.

Who is with me?

 

[Hoomi]

Playing their inflator like flute?

Okay; I have to ask - Do you play the flute?

I do, and I have to say, if my inflator was as sensitive to minute variations in airflow as my flute is, I'd be ecstatic to be skilled enough to play the inflator that well.

We should all be as skilled with the inflator as Greg Patillo, or Robert Dick, or Sir James Galway are with their flutes.

Then again, perhaps you meant that the noobs play their inflators with the same kind of skill that you would show on the flute...



(not offended or upset; I just found your flute comment amusing)

 

[Diver0001]

Okay; I have to ask - Do you play the flute?

I do, and I have to say, if my inflator was as sensitive to minute variations in airflow as my flute is, I'd be ecstatic to be skilled enough to play the inflator that well.

We should all be as skilled with the inflator as Greg Patillo, or Robert Dick, or Sir James Galway are with their flutes.

Then again, perhaps you meant that the noobs play their inflators with the same kind of skill that you would show on the flute...



(not offended or upset; I just found your flute comment amusing)

Brilliant videos. I've often said there are three kinds of musicians. Ones who play their instruments, ones who are played by their instruments and ones who breathe life into their instruments.

The true sign of a musician is when the instrument becomes an extention of the person....a way to "project" musically -- and creatively -- that little bit of human nature that can pushed out from deep inside and create a spark of magic in a mechanical thing.

With all due respect (and based only on these examples), I think from what I've seen that Patillo is played by his instrument but he compensates enormously through sheer creative talent, that Robert Dick is the kind who melds with his instrument and plugs it into his soul and Galway is technically fantastic but played that piece without any emotion at all.

If you want to see someone completely plugged in to their instrument you need to see this guy: He plays a short and quite simple piece from Dubbesy but does it in a way that makes even the most jaded of listeners think "O" "My" "God". Michelangeli is dead now and it's a real shame. His play was a gift to this world.

R..