Secondary reg bungee'd around neck?

[surfin009]

What is your rationale for having a long hose on the primary with this set up if you intend to use the secondary as an buddy AOA reg?

I dont- the long hose is for donating of course. Perhaps I stated it incorrectly? The octo is for me!

 

[Nick_W]

Why it is a good idea to bungie your secondary as oppsed to having it hanging on your hip or strap or actually floating around as many many Divers do. ( ya do not belive me...watch divers gearing up and count how many times there life support systems gets dragged, knocked or worse snagged on something prior to getting in the water. And as they swim around a wreck or reef. Knock it here and there.)

The most simplistic reason I can offer is this. The bungied secondary is the safest place to have it. It stays safe. Stays out of the dirt. Cannot get ripped off its resting place. Does not and will not hamper your streamlined configuration or attempts there of. It is a guranteeed place to find it. When you need it.

Now lets look at the STANDARD configuration - as it has been pointed out. The octo drags in the dirt. Hoses flapping in the current. risks of entanglements IF you desire to do a swim though penetrate a wreck inspect a reef. Is hanging loose...falls out, can and will get entangled at some point. Divers are oblivious as to where there gear is hanging or not hanging. The octo and the CLUSTER SPG gets dragged along the dirt dammaging coral, wrecks and the gear itself. Dirt gets lodge in the orifices of the Octo thus does not gurantee a first breath in the event of an OOA.

I have seen it time and time again. The dragging octo and SPG just floating in the current.

Let's not assume that the only two options are bungeed secondary or bumbling moron. There are plenty of people who do not bungee their octo who also do not drag it through dirt, bang it on coral, attempt to lasso sea turtles with it, or anything at all like that.

I would also point out that there should be no worry of an entanglement in a wreck as an OW certified diver shouldn't be penetrating a wreck to begin with.

 

[scarefaceDM]

Lets not assume funny...Where I am from..we have wrecks that MANY will and do penetrate. Trained or otherwise not trained. and some of these wrecks ARE wide open from one end to the other and MANY do swim through. They are also in 28 to 60 feet. that means OW depth limits. Many do also poke there heads in if not half of there bodies in also...and some times..not all..there octo, SPG gets entangled to a point. and some times a little worse. Octos get ripped out of there olding clips etc.

and no there are not only two options. But there is a Standard from many agencies that show the OPTION of the octo on a clip somewhere and the SPG cluster on an other.

Many should not but many will dive beyond there training.

Let's not assume that the only two options are bungeed secondary or bumbling moron. There are plenty of people who do not bungee their octo who also do not drag it through dirt, bang it on coral, attempt to lasso sea turtles with it, or anything at all like that.

I would also point out that there should be no worry of an entanglement in a wreck as an OW certified diver shouldn't be penetrating a wreck to begin with.

 

[Nick_W]

Lets not assume funny...Where I am from..we have wrecks that MANY will and do penetrate. Trained or otherwise not trained. and some of these wrecks ARE wide open from one end to the other and MANY do swim through. They are also in 28 to 60 feet. that means OW depth limits. Many do also poke there heads in if not half of there bodies in also...and some times..not all..there octo, SPG gets entangled to a point. and some times a little worse. Octos get ripped out of there olding clips etc.

and no there are not only two options. But there is a Standard from many agencies that show the OPTION of the octo on a clip somewhere and the SPG cluster on an other.

Many should not but many will dive beyond there training.

I think my main point was that not everyone who doesn't bungee their octo is a bumbling idiot who drags their gear through sand and all that good stuff.

 

[scarefaceDM]

I comprehended the jist of what ya were sayin...

I think my main point was that not everyone who doesn't bungee their octo is a bumbling idiot who drags their gear through sand and all that good stuff.

 

[mempilot]

No. You do not need a long hose any more than you need a long hose for Config 1. Havining the panicked diver in your face is a good thing. It calms them when you look in their eyes and they are less likely to actually become panicked.

'No' is such an absolute, Walter. While I do dive your types of dives on a regular basis, I don't think you dive my types of dives on a regular basis. Having a panacked diver in your face being a good thing is what PADI and you like to teach. In reality, what does the PADI Rescue course teach for approaching a panicked diver? You don't go straight in their face, do you? Bad things happen. Now, an OOA incident doesnt' give a whole lot of choice if they are taught to grab at your trianglated octo, does it? But, with a long hose, you donate at arms length a good breathing reg. Big difference, and it is being taught by most agencies outside the pool dwellers.

Both OOA instances I've dealt with, I'll admit I seem to dive around people who don't tend to run out of air like your experiences, didn't have a panacked diver staying panacked much longer than the first breath off the long hose secondary. It was more of a, "I need air because I'm running out." scenario, and the long hose made for a comfortable ascent up the line. I realize you dive with a lot of inexperienced divers. Both of the OOA incidents where I had to provide gas, actually the same person, where with a PADI DM/Instructer candidate.

 

[Walter]

Having a panacked diver in your face being a good thing is what PADI and you like to teach. In reality, what does the PADI Rescue course teach for approaching a panicked diver? You don't go straight in their face, do you? Bad things happen. Now, an OOA incident doesnt' give a whole lot of choice if they are taught to grab at your trianglated octo, does it? But, with a long hose, you donate at arms length a good breathing reg. Big difference, and it is being taught by most agencies outside the pool dwellers.

Both OOA instances I've dealt with, I'll admit I seem to dive around people who don't tend to run out of air like your experiences, didn't have a panacked diver staying panacked much longer than the first breath off the long hose secondary. It was more of a, "I need air because I'm running out." scenario, and the long hose made for a comfortable ascent up the line. I realize you dive with a lot of inexperienced divers. Both of the OOA incidents where I had to provide gas, actually the same person, where with a PADI DM/Instructer candidate.

I have never looked at PADI's Rescue class, so I can't answer what they teach. As for me, I do believe it is often a very good idea to be face to face with a panicked diver when you are both underwater. On the surface is a different story altogether.

As for arm's length or not, that is dependent on your awareness of the situation, not which configuration you are using nor on the length of the regulator hose.

 

[Nick_W]

I'm kind of with Walter on this one. I've never really understood the idea of having a long hose so you don't have to be close to an OOA diver.

First, you have to be close enough to donate the reg. Unless you have that reg attached to a 7' pole you're going to be within arms reach. Second, once they have the reg, it really is best that you maintain positive control of them as you ascend. You aren't going to give them the reg and then shove off. What happens when you pull that reg out of their mouth from 7' away? Now you've got an OOA diver 7' away from you.

 

[Jeff Toorish]

Really? You'd rather have a panicky diver right in your face in full blown panic? With 7' hose it's not like they're gonna swim off on you. It's enough hose that the other diver doesn't have to yank on you every time he wants to inhale, but not much more than needed to be two feet away from you and directly facing each other. If needed, you can "reel in" the diver and keep him closer if the situation warrants.

I doubt you could "reel in" a diver who is 7 feet above you, filling his or her wing with air, and swimming for the surface. You won't be reeling anyone in, you will be going for an uncontrolled ride to the surface, in my opinion.

If the panicked diver is close to you, you have far more control --and you can make eye contact, which could be extremely imprtant. Again, this is my opinion.

I neglected to mention this during my previous posts, but there is another concern about a long hose in open water configurations --in overhead diving, we practice OOA drills on nearly every dive. Someone coming up and grabbing that long hose out of your mouth may well wind up tangling you in the hose. I would urge anyone using a 5' or 7' hose to get the proper training on how to handle the OOA, how to donate, and also to educate dive partners about how it's done.

And we are trained to avoid out of air situations, as has been mentioned, but sometimes they are unavoidable. I have had two such situations, both during training exercises, and both times it was an equipment failure.

Jeff

 

[GeorgeC]

Just some points to ponder and consider

I guess rebreather divers, whom I would consider technical, are diving 5’ – 7’ long corrugated loops? I don’t think so. I don’t think they dive with a 5’ or 7’ hose off their diluent bottle either.

Scenario 1
Lets assume two open circuit divers go for a dive and we will call them diver 1 & 2. Forget for a moment the size of the hoses and the bungee issue. They dive and diver 2 runs out of air and being a new diver starts to panic and goes for the primary regulator in divers 1’s mouth. Diver 2 rips it out of the mouth of diver 1 and diver 1 has no other choice but to go for his secondary. We assume they both ascend to safety.

Scenario 2
Lets assume Diver 1 is on a rebreather and diver 2 is open circuit. Same issue, diver 2 runs out of air, a new diver and panics. Doe he go and rip the loop out of diver 1’s mouth or does he say “Oh, he is on rebreather so I have to go for the open circuit regulator he has clipped off to his bc?

If he goes for the closed loop a fight might ensue. If he goes for the clipped off regulator on the dil bottle how is this different than if they were both on open circuit. Is there some sort of gestalt when seeing a rebreather that causes the panicked diver to revert back to his/her training and look for the regulator in the triangle?

I see most closed circuit divers sling a 40 or so cf bottle that they simply can hand off to the out of air diver.

Lets face it, rebreathers will be mainstream just like nitrox. What is going to happen to all of the 5+ foot hoses? Are they going to be used on their onboard bail out dil bottles? If so, why are they using them on their open circuit primary regulators now? If not, once again, why use them on their open circuit primary regulators now?

I think there is gong to be a paradigm shift as rebreathers become more common.