Secondary reg bungee'd around neck?
- Thread starter rjpv
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As stated, the fundamental difference is whether you donate the reg you are breathing, or the secondary regulator. There are a lot of good arguments for donating the reg you are breathing -- You are breathing it, so you know it's working properly, and you, who are unstressed, are in a much better position to cope with any problems that might occur with the backup reg, compared with the OOA diver, who's probably frantic or just maintaining. You know where it IS, so you don't have to fumble around finding a secondary regulator that you've stuck on some kind of a clip somewhere, which may or may not still be in said clip, and may or may not come free easily. (Some people even stuff their secondary regulators in a POCKET. I don't want to sit patiently out of air while you unzip your pocket, thank you anyway.)
But using a "donate the primary" setup can be to YOUR advantage, too. There are times when having a regulator precisely where you think it is can be a very good thing. I have had a couple of falls during entries or exits, where reaching down and popping my backup reg in my mouth made trivial something which could otherwise have been panic-inducing.
I have my backup reg in a necklace of thin bungie. The reg is contained in a loop of bungie defined by two fisherman's knots. If enough tension is placed on the reg, it will come out. Therefore, you cannot strangle me with it, nor can it spring back with enough force to injure me.
Using some kind of longer hose (40" can be enough; 5' routes better, and 7' is needed for anything technical) gives you more OPTIONS in managing an OOA or low on air situation -- You don't need to surface immediately if it isn't optimal to do so. It is essentially impossible to swim any distance while sharing air on a 24" primary hose. And, despite the fact that we almost all do primarily "recreational" dives, there ARE places where it isn't a great idea to surface (eg. shipping lanes, or far from an anchored boat). It's nice to have the choice to get back to a better place to come up. And the downside of a little longer hose is so absolutely minimal.
But using a "donate the primary" setup can be to YOUR advantage, too. There are times when having a regulator precisely where you think it is can be a very good thing. I have had a couple of falls during entries or exits, where reaching down and popping my backup reg in my mouth made trivial something which could otherwise have been panic-inducing.
I have my backup reg in a necklace of thin bungie. The reg is contained in a loop of bungie defined by two fisherman's knots. If enough tension is placed on the reg, it will come out. Therefore, you cannot strangle me with it, nor can it spring back with enough force to injure me.
Using some kind of longer hose (40" can be enough; 5' routes better, and 7' is needed for anything technical) gives you more OPTIONS in managing an OOA or low on air situation -- You don't need to surface immediately if it isn't optimal to do so. It is essentially impossible to swim any distance while sharing air on a 24" primary hose. And, despite the fact that we almost all do primarily "recreational" dives, there ARE places where it isn't a great idea to surface (eg. shipping lanes, or far from an anchored boat). It's nice to have the choice to get back to a better place to come up. And the downside of a little longer hose is so absolutely minimal.
Why is a Rescue Instructor an authority on that statistic? While I'm not either, I have had on two seperate occasions had to donate to an OOA diver. On one occassion, they grabbed for the reg in my mouth. In my experience, that makes it 50/50, and just cause to believe it is a normal reaction.
How is a cave any different than a wreck? And, in reality, see response above, having a long hose still gives you the ability to keep in contact with the diver. But, it also allows that seperation when the situation is under control. You don't have that ability with a 40" hose. Also, why change up your configuration just because you aren't diving in an overhead environment? While the long hose configuration was established to provide efficiency in tight spaces, it has been adopted by multiple training agencies as a standard configuration no matter what dive environment one dives in. How is a long hose a pain?
Long hoses are for wrecks too. I personally find a long hose inconvenient. I don't mind using one when appropriate, of course. Otherwise, I'd rather have standard length hoses.
As for the conversation I had with the rescue instructor about divers grabbing a second stage out of a buddy's mouth; apparently she had done some research on this. Her view was that it is more myth than fact. Divers are trained to go for the Octo that is in the triangle --so to me that makes sense. In the two OOA situations I've been involved in, both times the OOA diver went for the Octo, not the primary.
As for a 5' or 7' hose in an OOA open water situation; I'd prefer to have a panicky diver not have the ability to get 7 feet away from me. Of course, that's just my opinon.
Jeff
Age
Contributor
As a diver who is seriously considering switching to long hose configuration, partly because they are standard in my dive club, I'm extremely interested in this debate. On the one hand, a NAUI course director told me that he had his reg. ripped from his mouth three times (and so he threw away all his yellow hoses) on the other hand I've seen what I call the "Halo effect" demonstrated by my fellow divers when the long hose came out of their belt. The point about keeping in close physical contact with the OOA diver while ascending makes sense too.
I'm no expert by any means (26 dives) but after reading through this forum and making my own decisions this is how i do it. 6' primary, under right arm up and around neck into mouth. octo goes under right arm clipped onto right D ring. This works for me. Have air shared and its quick and easy to find my octo. It feels like its in my "triangle". Though in the future I may try the bungee method, but for now this is what I like. I have attached a pic to make it even more clear, and to show off a little :14:
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Age
Contributor
I hate to say this, but to me your configuration seems to have incorporated all the disadvantages of long hose config. and none of the advantages.:arrow:
What is your rationale for having a long hose on the primary with this set up if you intend to use the secondary as an buddy AOA reg?
rjpv:
It's a fine method if you do it correctly. I've seen folks attempt it who've only red about it and developed their own dangerous methods. The reg has to easily (not to easily) pull free from the bungie when you want it to.
mempilot:
No. You do not need a long hose any more than you need a long hose for Config 1. Havining the panicked diver in your face is a good thing. It calms them when you look in their eyes and they are less likely to actually become panicked.
mempilot:
I certainly understand your thought process, but you have to admit it's a pretty small sample. I've rescued a few more OOA divers than two. One of them reached for the reg in my mouth, but he was a cave instructor, so his reaction may not have been normal. All the others have either reached for my octo or waited for me to give them a regulator.
Stupid question, but why are so many of you diving with buddies that run out of air? I am going to the 7' hose but that is for my tech rig. On the recreational rig I use thet standard hose and an air two as the backup. That means the diver out of air gets my primary and I take the inflator. Close proximity but that's where I want them.
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