ScubaPro.... Should I be done with them??

[cobaltblue]

Just wanted to get some feedback as to weather or not I should be done with ScubaPro or not.

Here's the deal. I had another free flow with ScubaPro regs this weekend. I have had many, I mean many, free flows with ScubaPro regs. Up until this weekend they were all with MK25 and S600 or X650 setups. After dealing with ScubaPro with the MK25 free flows, I was given an MK17 as an act of customer service, I've also purchased others for my wife and I. FWIW, ScubaPro's customer service was good when I was going through the issues.

Well... My MK17/X650 setup free flowed on me this weekend. I've been pretty loyal to ScubaPro up to this point, even defended them on the board here.

I guess I'm at a loss of what to do. What do you think?

FYI, the regs were rebuilt about 10 dives ago by a certified tech whose a good friend. I think he even dove this set while we were out a couple of weeks ago. Also, I was at about 90' and it was about 40 degrees.

 

[woodsandwatertoo]

Before I went into business in April, I used had MK25/S600 and was like you, faithful to the brand.

My reg was BRAND NEW, dove few times, wonderful, breathes good. Nothing past 50-60 ft. My brother and I decided to take a deep dive, we made it to 105 ft, temp 45 deg.

We were into the dive no time at all and FREE FLOW began, no problem with me. I had practiced this before in training with other regs.

After that I only dove deep with my Atomic reg.

When I went into business, starting using SHERWOOD regs and have been more than happy with them. SUPER SMOOTH and the Purge size is Small so NO more pushing up on my nose. Haven't had the first problem.

Testing out the Oasis reg right now. Really like it.
Have used the SR1 for several weeks and really loved it. BETTER BREATHING than I ever had with the S600.

Need any more info on it, write me.

We have them in stock if interested. Can make you an excellent deal on one and we do consider trade-ins.

Thanks
Chris Brown

 

[Hoosier]

MK25/S600 used to have a free flow issue, but MK17 doesn't have it. I also had a free flow issue with MK25/S600 at 39 degree water and then I replaced S600 with G250HP. I haven't had any issue yet.

I also dove with MK17/G250HP at 100' in 45 degree water last weekend, but there was no issue.

You might need to detune MK17/X650 and check the moisture level on the air from the shop as well.


You know, sometimes there is a certain brand you might not go with well. In my case, Aqua Lung doesn't work for me. I am sure they are making a good reg., but it doesn't fit me without a solid excuse.

 

[drbill]

I only dive the much older Mk10/G250 and rarely have any problems with free flows. I do have mine detuned, but it delivers all the air I need even at extreme depth with great ease.

 

[Packhorse]

Define free flow?
Are you talking about a freeze up or a slight leak?

 

[livewire]

Wow, I actually have something in common with Dr. Bill. You and I share the same taste in regulators.... Mk10/G250 from the wayback machine, around 15 years old and still truckin'. Never had any issues although last couple of years it's started to "whistle" a little. Never a free flow, though, even at 100' in low 50's water.

Can't speak to whether or not you should abandon ScubaPro, but if it were me in your shoes, I would try the idea of tuning and/or figuring out why it's happening first before going through the extra dollars in trading out gear. I'm just a tight-wad that way, but that's just me!

 

[SDAnderson]

I own a couple of MK20/G250's and when the water is warmer than 50F, they're my first choice. I've converted them to MK25's and installed the cold-water upgrade but if the water is colder than 50F, I don't dive them. I love them for their easy breathing but the firsts have frozen up often enough in the past that I can't bring myself to trust them.

Pistons don't belong in water colder than 50F. Sooner or later (and it's impossible to predict when) the ice chews up the O-rings and they fail.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

I'd stop using the SP regs that freeflow. The S600 is notorious for cold water freeze flows, especially when paired with a Mk 25. The Mk 17 is pretty much bullet proof in cold water, but poor technique can still send an S600 over the edge.

The X650 is quite frankly not my favorite reg and I am positive Sp made the right move in discontinuing it. POS with a captal P. That said, I never managed to freeflow one even in 35 degree ice dives to 100' or more depth. I got a few ice chips spit at me now and then but that was it.

At some point you need to start considering that the only person present at all your freeflows has been yourself and begin to consider whether your cold water technique can be improved. I have posted several times on good cold water technique. Do a search...

Personally, I dive Mk 17 G250's (the original G250 - not the HP) and it has been a reliable, bullet proof high performance reg in caves, in wrecks, in current and under ice. I'd take it anywhere that has diveable water. The current G250V is the same second stage but with some minor improvements. If I were in the market for a new reg a Mk 17 G250V would be my choice hands down over anything else on the market.

I know people who have (rapidly moving toward "had') high hopes for the SR1, but so far it is well on its way to developing a reputation as a problem child. It has seat issues and a dry seal system that gets blown out when the IP goes out the upper limit. I would personally not take one anywhere in a soft or hard overhead environment.

The Aqualung Legend/TX100/ATX200 regs are nice, but they are basically G250 copies. If you don't have an SP dealer nearby, the Legend LX is a good reg and service is a bit more available than it's Apeks siblings as not all Aqualung dealers choose to carry Apeks.

 

[cobaltblue]

If I stop using the SP regs that free flow, it means I'm out shopping for new regs. All, I repeat ALL, mine and all but my wifes newest MK17 have free flowed. That's like 6 sets of regs less the one first stage that hasn't free flowed.

It was a full blown free flow. The "little hiss" is SOP by the end of the dive, used to that, don't really consider it a free flow.

As for cold water technique. In over 200 dives in the last 3 years, all but like 25 have been in cold water. I'm not saying I'm a perfect diver, I know and try to not inflate while inhaling, and the like. I'm not however going to bounce off the bottom with drysuit squeeze so my reg doesn't freeze.

As for buying more SP stuff to try and prevent the problem. Fool me once, silly you.... Fool me twice, silly me.... Seeing how I feel as though I've been "fooled" like six times at this point, to the tune of about $4K, I'm not really interested in feeling any more like a dip ***** and giving SP more money.

One other point I'd like to make, the X650 was purchased as a recommendation from SP to prevent the free flows. I'm not saying it's not a POS, but it was recommended by them. Are you saying they recommended I purchase a few hundred dollar POS to correct the problem. Once again, does this company deserve my business at this point?

Thanks for the replies so far.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

Then you are saying that:

1. you have already made up your mind, and
2. you are actually asking a rhetorical question and have no real interest in any opinion different than yours.

I'm ok with that as long as we establish that fact and not beat around the bush pretending you are actually interested in dissenting opinions.

But I will try to add some balance by stating that I know of numberous divers who are more than happy with the Mk 17 in very cold water. I also know the Mk 17 passed a freeflow test at 165' in 35 degree water at high flow rates for 200 minutes and was the only reg among all the brands and models tested that survived the full 200 minute test.

200 dives in the last 3 years with 175 being in cold water is great. I stopped counting at about 1500 dives over 23 years with probably 85 percent of them being in cold water defined at 60 degrees or less with the majority of those being in cold water where the bottom temps were 45 degrees or less. I have well over 200 dives in water with bottom temps 35 degrees or less and/or ice dives. I don't want to minimize your experience, I just want to put it in perspective.

I can count the freeze flows I have had on one hand. I had a Mk 3 R108 freeze flow on a sub zero day in 35 degree water than was frankly early in my career and pretty much my fault through poor technique. I had a Mk 10 freeze on a pony bottle in 40 degree water when the purge got bumped and initiated a normal freeflow that then became a freeze flow before I could reach it. That is again poor technique. I had an air 2 freeze flow after using it to fill a 200 lb lift bag in about 100' of 40 degree water. No surprise there - that was reg abuse. It was also intentional as I knew when it froze I could resolve the problem by just disconnecting it for a minute or so. I had a Mk 20 D400 freeze flow on an ice dive, but it took me about 30 seconds on the purge button at the end of the dive floating in the hole to get it to happen and it was frankly a test to see how much it took to make it happpen. That is again reg abuse. That leaves the only legitimate freeflow I had. That occurred at 130 feet in 35 degree water after I dropped to the bottom in a very rapid negative descent and then gave a long blast on the DS inflator while inhaling. That was with a Mk 25 D400 but again was very poor technique.

Its probably equally significant that I have not been able to make my Mk 17 G250 freeze flow. If you can do it, please post all the relvent facts so that I or someone else can try to replicate it.