ScubaMax ScubaPro

[Jim Lapenta]

I have ScubaPro, Oceanic, Aqualung, Sherwood, and Scubamax Gear. I also now sell Edge/HOG. I'm an independent instructor and have used many more brands as well. The difference between ScubaPro and the others- cost. It costs more. The other regs breath just as well if not better when properly tuned. I'll put my HOG's up against any SP reg and they are less than half the cost of the top of the line ScubaPro. Service really is not an issue with any reg if you can get the parts. Any competent tech can service any reg if he has the parts and access to a manual. Most of the manuals are on line. Scubamax and Edge-HOG dealers can sell parts to anyone. So the service issue for the Scubamax or regs I sell is not one.

Just because a shop sells Scubapro does not mean they have a tech that knows what they are doing. I have a SP Mk16 R190 that I will sell today if anyone gives me the right price and will replace it with a HOG D1 in a heartbeat and have a better performing reg at much less than I paid for the SP.

The fact is that today there are no regs that I would call junk out there. The threat of a lawsuit has made sure that every manufacturer has a product that is safe and will do the job. Another fact is that the average recreational diver would be hard pressed to tell the difference between a Mk25 G250 and a Sherwood Brut if I tuned the Brut properly. Or any other reg. As for the $60 snorkel- for a diver that's just plain nuts. I sell a good roll-up that is more suited to scuba divers for a 1/3 of that price.

Scuba Pro has a jacket BC I've seen sell for over $600. It does nothing more than my $250 Zeagle Express Tech, $300 Scubamax, or $275 Edge Freedom will do for much less money. A BC has very few things that can go wrong. I paid over $450 for my first BC- an Oceanic Probe and will never pay that much for a BC again. It is simply not necessary.

It is no different than what used to be the difference between a Cadillac and Chevy. Or a Ford and Lincoln. You could get the same options in a Caprice Classic or Crown Vic that you could get in a Town Car or Coupe Deville. The real difference was in the name and how much parts cost.

Same with dive gear. Pay for the name and function or just function. I'll choose the latter.

 

[Krazytomdiver]

As a dive guide,with the economy & competitive demand for dive related employment,unfortunately appearance does matter. Investing in top of the line equipment can make the difference;getting a full time employment,keeping that employment,customer's confidence/relations,and monatary gratuity. I'm not saying it's right but that's my experience.
The game is played with many rules,the trick is to know the not so important ones. There's 'probably' not much difference in dive performance from one brand to the other.

"living life without a hard bottom"
KT

 

[Aqua-Andy]

As a dive guide,with the economy & competitive demand for dive related employment,unfortunately appearance does matter. Investing in top of the line equipment can make the difference;getting a full time employment,keeping that employment,customer's confidence/relations,and monatary gratuity. I'm not saying it's right but that's my experience.
The game is played with many rules,the trick is to know the not so important ones. There's 'probably' not much difference in dive performance from one brand to the other.

"living life without a hard bottom"
KT

I believe the OP was asking about the quality of the gear not how it makes you look.
Ya I know Wally World is open 24/7, Call it what you like but in this economy most people will look for a bargain. Take these two regs for example MK25/S600 right around $700 or hog D1cold 1st and 2nd with your choice of hose length (I already have to many 30" hoses) for around $275. Both have the same performance and quality, which reg you go for?

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Investing in top of the line gear also may not mean squat if you go to work for a shop with your ScubaPro gear and all they sell is Aqualung or Oceanic. Just means you will have very expensive gear sitting in the closet and using the op's rental stuff.

 

[dgreenh]

I really hate the term "top of the line", it is so overused by every manufacturer (of anything) that it has really become meaningless. Whatever a store sells, the customers are told it is the top of the line. Yes, ScubaPro does make good equipment, no question about it. Top of the line? I guess that depends on personal or perceived opinion. Well respected and recognized in the scuba industry? Sure I'll go along with that. Is there better equipment? Once again, it depends on your personal opinion. Is there more cost effective, less recognized equipment that performs just as well or better? Absolutely.

Most new divers buy what they are sold by their local dive shops. Most recreational divers do not need to spend a fortune on equipment to be safe and have an excellent diving experience.

krazytomdiver - I completely understand where you are coming from. Dress to impress works in all industries! The well recognized ScubaPro name is known to most all divers world wide, at all levels and could possibly present a more successful impression. Being a professional myself, whatever equipment I see a professional in just makes me think that is what the dive shop they work out of sells. Brand names don't impress (or scare) me. I look for fit, function, durability and features.

 

[drdaddy]

Everything that Jim Lapenta writes is right on. Listen to him.

ScubaPro, AquaLung, Sherwood, and a very few other brand can be serviced anywhere in the World.

Almost any brand (parts available) can be serviced by a good tec (which I have at my LDS-ESDS in Eugene, Oregon). But there are a number of older regs/brands that are obsolete because you just can't get parts any more. My LDS/tec is not nasty. Yes, they sell certain brands, but they are mature/service/customer centered and will help you with any brand. They will also be honest - trustworthy - and serve you with integrity. Many LDS do not fit this pattern and thus, so many problems.

I dive with an older 1980-1990s Sherwood Oasis+. It is the "Toyota Camry" of Regulators. My PADI Instructor son uses older AquaLung Conshelfs - they are in the same category. You can get them worked on anywhere in the World and parts are still available. They don't freeze up, they breath easy in cold/deep waters, and my tec says they are just bullet proof. The problem with so many "Fiats" and "Ferraris" Reg sets of today is that they are so finicky and constantly need to be tuned and this fanciness in not necessary for most (almost all) scuba divers. We listen too much to the latest silly reports in dive magazines that are truly just trying to push us to buy gear gear gear.

Listen to the advice of people like Jim (and some older/experienced SB sages) instead of the hype and nastiness of some of the LDSs (obviously there are good Local Dive Shops - I'm wishing that you may find one).

 

[Rascally Rabbit]

I think you have already gotten some very good advise from Jim Lapenta. I also have used a number of different regs and other gear from number of mainstream manufacturers. All have been quality products and I have never had to question my safety using any of it. I have preferences based on fit, feel and features but I also know that a few models from different manufacturers will each fit my wants and needs. Understand that the other considerations are price and serviceability.

On price it comes down to which manufacturers enforce which pricing policy MAP or MARP.
MAP set the advertized price but allows the dealer to dscount the actual selling price.

Manufacturers that have MARP agreements with their dealers do not allow discounting of their products without factory authorization. This enforces an artificially high price for their products.
It is my opinion and that of many other divers that this is an unfair and anti-competative marketing system that is to be avoided. For this reason I disqualify and avoid any manufacturers products that are priced in this way and suggest that other divers do the same.

When looking at a LDS you'll generally find they carry the lines of multiple manufacturers. If all their product lines are from MARP manufacturers run away. If they carry a mix of mainstream lines that are both MARP and MAP you are more likely to be able to negotiate a fair deal. I'd be even more inclined to shop at a LDS with only MAP products.

Scubapro, Aqualung and Atomic enforces a MARP agreement on their dealers that is why the higher pricing. If you have any doubts about what manufacturers enforce which structure just ask here on the board.
Sherwood and Oceanic are among the majority that use a MAP structure that you can purchase at discount.

 

[VTscubaDAN]

I've been diving ScubaMax my whole career. Their second stages and piston 1sts are solid performer, and I've found their diaphragm 1st are on par with all the others I've tried. In So. Cal, service for them wasn't a problem, but it seems like the more rural you live, the harder it is to find a LDS that has taken the time and spent the money to get certified as a ScubaMax tech. I've got one shop that told me they've never heard of them, and another shop that's willing to mail my gear out for service. Nice of them I suppose, but I can mail packages as easily as they can, and without the markup. Incidentally, the first shop I mentioned doesn't have a ScubaPro tech on staff, so they resort to anecdotes of poor business practices that SP used to use to strong-arm LDS's to carry their products exclusively or not at all, etc. as a reason that they will never work on SP gear. It's a self-defeating strategy that sends a lot of business to the other LDS in the area that is willing to service them.

Bottom line, they're all going to need to be serviced at some point and unless you're in a nursing home, you're probably not going to be living in the same locale forever, so a purchase decision based on what your LDS services at the moment is of less consequence in the long run than some posters have suggested. Get what you can afford, and never believe for a second that paying more for a regulator is going to save your life--that's a dirty sales tactic used by salesmen who hope you're vulnerable enough to believe them. Or as they say, "It's worth every cent that some poor sucker is willing to pay for it!"

 

[Paladin]

My LDS was an Aqua-Lung dealer for over 40 years, until last year. AL yanked their authorized dealer status because the LDS did not sell enough stuff to satisfy AL. The LDS is now a ScubaMax dealer and I've tried some of the ScubaMax gear. SM's regs breathe as well as any I've ever used and the price can't be beat. I would not hesitate to buy ScubaMax regs. I know that Edge/HOG has not been mentioned, but that is another reasonably priced brand I think is excellent. I'm a life-long Aqua-Lung fan, but I wouldn't buy a new AL reg at the prices they're asking. The older Conshelfs are very inexpensive and are equal to any new AL model.

In the 1970s, GM built Buicks and Cadillacs. A Caddie cost twice as much, if not more, as the Buick. Yet they were the same car. The bodies were identical and both had the same list of options. The only difference was the name plate. Yet people gladly shelled out the extra money because they held the mistaken belief that a Caddie was better than a Buick because the Caddie cost more.

If you can find a good deal on ScubaMax and you like their gear, just pick a good dealer somewhere that will give you reliable mail service for servicing and send your regs off each year before the season starts, or send it out at the end of the season to be ready for the next year.

 

[Aqua-Andy]

In the 1970s, GM built Buicks and Cadillacs. A Caddie cost twice as much, if not more, as the Buick. Yet they were the same car. The bodies were identical and both had the same list of options. The only difference was the name plate. Yet people gladly shelled out the extra money because they held the mistaken belief that a Caddie was better than a Buick because the Caddie cost more.

The funny thing is they are still doing the same thing. Got $15K to throw away? Just buy the Escalade instead if the Yukon.