Question Scuba Gaskets order - duty payment required???

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To be fair, I think Scuba-74 is understandably upset about the totally outrageous tariff (as if everyone I know) but his major complaint is about SG's lack of disclosure of ALL the costs when he ordered. They made bare mention on Facebook, but no mention on their website. The tariffs alone are negligible; but SG's use of DHL and the ensuing cost was hidden. One could assume they did this on purpose, attempting to make a sale by misleading the customer about the final costs. Those who are defending SG are focussed on the triffs, which are not the major issue here.
 
The tariffs alone are negligible; but SG's use of DHL and the ensuing cost was hidden. One could assume they did this on purpose, attempting to make a sale by misleading the customer about the final costs. Those who are defending SG are focussed on the triffs, which are not the major issue here.
They may not have had a choice. The national postal carriers for many countries are refusing to accept commercial packages being sent to the US. There are also many reports of packages that have been sent through less expensive channels getting stuck in customs for weeks or disappearing entirely.

 
Dude, anyone that has watched the news for 10 minutes, spent any amount of time on social media, skimmed through any of the major news websites, or talked with any small business owners would know that US tariffs are now enforced for small value orders, are changing seemingly weekly, and are not always calculated consistently. If you missed all that, I guess I understand why you might feel a little surprised by a tariff bill.

Let me counter with this analogy. We're all well aware of the recent issue with the bird flu and increased price of eggs. Right? It is also common knowledge, about as much as the tariffs.

WRT this, I expect and have actually seen two outcomes: 1) price of eggs increased in the stores; 2) breakfast places (including the cafe at my place of work) put notes on their menus or counters, saying that the cost of items that include eggs and their price have now increased. I can make an educated decision now, whether I want to buy a bacon egg and cheese this week, or go with bagel and cream cheese for my breakfast.

Now let's imagine that every time you buy a dozen of eggs in a store, or a breakfast sandwich, you would then receive a bill in the mail a week later requesting you to pay additional "bird flu" fee. Would that be acceptable to you?

Now, let's put another twist on that. What if some stores increased their prices to recoup their increased costs, some left prices the same and absorbed the additional costs in order to sell more eggs and keep their customers, and yet some others kept the prices the same, but if you buy from them, you then receive the bill in the mail for an unknown additional amount? Which of these options would you choose?
 
I understand that, but as a retail customer I am not used to two things: 1) not knowing the total price of the purchase when I make it; 2) paying for it piecemeal, first when making it and then a week later when it crosses the border.

I make nearly all my buying aside from food online, have done so for years, and this is literally the first time I'm dealing with that.

I think it's a fair practice to let the customer know the total price upfront. That's all I'm asking.
I hate to say it like this, but it is an unfair ask. Import tariffs are the responsibility of the importer of record and with the way they all change they would be opening them up to huge liability for mis-representing the actual costs that they don't know. It is VERY rare for most consumers to actually import things from out of the country, in fact it is actually against most companies distribution policies to export out of your region with consumer goods, including most of scuba gear. Distributors exist for a reason, and dealing with this kind of stuff is one of the main reasons that local distribution networks exist. This is why you can't buy branded Apeks parts kits in the USA, their dealership agreements forbid the export of those parts to the USA and several dealers that tried it 15-20 years ago from Europe lost their dealership when they got caught. The fact that they're willing at all to export to the US is something we should be grateful for as many smaller companies just can't afford the hassle to do it.

I'll give you that they should have warned about the expected processing fees from DHL, but it is entirely unreasonable for them to put that in their actual price, you are buying DAP not DDP, most people never have to even learn what those letters mean, but it's a big deal in international logistics and always has been.

Paid the god damned charge.

What is interesting, only $2.69 of that amount is the actual tax, and $17 is DHL's "duty tax processing" fee.

So, f..k DHL.
For the amount of work required that is actually a fairly small fee to charge, you can be upset about it, but it's a good bit of paperwork with MASSIVE legal repercussions if they screw it up, you can be upset at this all you want, but this has ALWAYS been the norm. The only thing that is different now is that the de minimis has been lifted, if you bought a regulator set from that country 10 years ago or even a year ago then you would have gone through the exact same process. Ali express is importing to themselves, they'll have set up a USA LLC or something that is operating the warehouse then they sell from their Chinese company to the USA company, pay the import tariffs on arrival, then distribute out, this is the way distribution has been done for hundreds of years, and if you want to import yourself directly, then you have to do it without the economy of scale that the distributors can leverage.

We have customers asking us right now for millions of dollars worth of orders what the tariffs are going to be, and we honestly can't answer that until the bills actually come in, we can get close, but we can't get exact numbers until that invoice arrives, saying that they know exactly what it will be is too risky for a business dealing with that small of a dollar valuation to risk anything going wrong so selling DAP is the least risk.

What is interesting though is that companies like Ali Express who you are praising are actually the reason that the de minimis was lifted in the first place and now that they have US distribution they are having to pay the tariffs they should have been all along, so it's a bit of a weird situation that we are finding ourselves in with companies like that. Companies like Scuba Gaskets are not something the government cares about, it's companies like Ali Express that were being extremely problematic and why they lifted that exemption. The irony being that the problem companies are big enough to setup their own distribution from the US with little loss to them but the smaller companies that were the reason it was put in place are the ones that suffer.
 
For the amount of work required that is actually a fairly small fee to charge, you can be upset about it, but it's a good bit of paperwork with MASSIVE legal repercussions if they screw it up, you can be upset at this all you want, but this has ALWAYS been the norm. The only thing that is different now is that the de minimis has been lifted

Well, I guess I'll summarize it for myself:

- I've never faced this before, and I am sure a lot of people that read this thread haven't either, so at least there is that
- I'm not really holding a grudge against ScubaGaskets, although I won't buy from them again
- I'll keep an eye out on other international purchases, some people have commented that this is indeed becoming a norm, I appreciate that info and will keep it in mind

What is interesting though is that companies like Ali Express who you are praising are actually the reason that the de minimis was lifted

Lol, I haven't praised Ali Express and literally never bought from them :)
 
Now let's imagine that every time you buy a dozen of eggs in a store, or a breakfast sandwich, you would then receive a bill in the mail a week later requesting you to pay additional "bird flu" fee. Would that be acceptable to you?
Thats actually kind of the American way. When you pick up the candy bar marked $2.99 at a gas station in Massachusetts, it ultimately rings up at $3.18 at the counter, assuming they are only adding sales tax and don't recover the credit card processing fee too. We don't get mad at the store since we know the difference is going to the state, not lining their pocket. We're used to it and pretty much accept that the price we see doesn't necessarily include all taxes and fees. In the past,we have all been used to ordering small amounts of crap from EU and Asia and not having to pay a tariff bill, but those days are over now too. I was diving up in Michigan last weekend, should have bought beer and soda before leaving Wisconsin, as there was a 10-cent per can deposit added on at the checkout that wasn't disclosed on the shelf price. I just sighed and paid it and had some post-dive beers with the dive team back at the hotel. The only real difference in any of these examples is that the retailer collects local taxes, while the importer (you) pays tarriffs once the package makes it through customs.
 
Well, I guess I'll summarize it for myself:

- I've never faced this before, and I am sure a lot of people that read this thread haven't either, so at least there is that
- I'm not really holding a grudge against ScubaGaskets, although I won't buy from them again
- I'll keep an eye out on other international purchases, some people have commented that this is indeed becoming a norm, I appreciate that info and will keep it in mind



Lol, I haven't praised Ali Express and literally never bought from them :)
-most people have probably never dealt with this, it's definitely a bit niche. I play in musical theatre professionally and have some friends that have imported horns directly from Europe/Asia and have dealt with it. Anyone on this forum that has bought rebreather parts from Martin at Tecme or Narked at 90 have dealt with this, direct import of drysuits from people like O'Three, etc. I just wanted to emphasize that the only new thing about this is that it now applies to <$800 imports.
-can't blame you, it's a big problem for companies like them
-The key here for other int'l shipments is who is the importer of record and whether the incoterms are DAP or DDP. May have been someone else praising Ali, thread got a bit out of hand and remembering who said what gets a bit much.
 
That's because you don't seem to get the point that foreign vendors aren't responsible for your internal mess or government polices. You keep insisting that somehow the outside vendor is supposed to figure out what your government is doing inside its borders. You are also insisting that they put labels all over their website telling you what your government will charge you, the buyer/importer, and look into their crystal ball to give a quote for that part. I buy from all over the US and Europe, and no one from my vendors does for me what you seem to be insisting they do for you. This point was made several times by others here, but you seem not to accept it and want it your way. Get over it.

Reading online suggests that there are many countries that do not allow the free transfer of goods from other places to private buyers in their country.
 
Thats actually kind of the American way. When you pick up the candy bar marked $2.99 at a gas station in Massachusetts, it ultimately rings up at $3.18 at the counter, assuming they are only adding sales tax and don't recover the credit card processing fee too. We don't get mad at the store since we know the difference is going to the state, not lining their pocket. We're used to it and pretty much accept that the price we see doesn't necessarily include all taxes and fees.

Not quite, but funny that you mention that. As I've said, I moved to the US as an adult, and that was actually one of the biggest "culture differences" I've experienced. In the old country, you paid what was on the price tag. Anyway, at a US store you still have all the info when you buy - you can learn to add the tax when you look at the item, and then ultimately you can decide not to pay at the register, if it becomes too much. I'd be more than OK if ScubaGaskets presented me with that option, but alas.

I get all the "just ignore it it's small and it's there for a reason" arguments, and I will, if I start seeing it more often. Just not yet.
 

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