Scuba diver goes missing off Catalina Island

[LACounty4806]

It seems the real constant is how to prevent this in the future in CA or anywhere. A standard protocol could be the norm.

Who would develop this protocol? Also who would enforce it?

 

[LACounty4806]

I am convinced that we need to develop a divers bill of rights carefully thought out and posted on every legitimate dive boat that explains the duty of care that they are prepared to provide for every diver on every trip. Crew pictures with their names and credentials should be posted on the boat for all to see. If anyone observes that the boat is not prepared to perform to the standard or does not have a qualified crew on board they would have a right to a full refund. I know there are many good dive boat operators out there and I am sure they will not have a problem with these concepts.

I think this is pretty interesting and by interesting, I mean really doubtful. There isn't a regulatory consensus for the dive industry itself in terms of their own standards so I'm not sure how you would go about this endeavor for dive boats in multiple countries and regions with varying legal regulations to begin with. I don't think it would be a simple task and I'm curious who you think "we" are in terms of the development.

You can pick your dive operation like you would any other business. Do your research. If you don't want to dive with a boat that you think might leave you behind, then don't. The CPDV industry should be self-correcting just like any other business. Bad operators go away. And leaving divers behind is the cardinal sin for this business model.

As for analysis of the accident, we have very few facts other than an approximate timeline. That being said, based on local experience and past accidents, I'd say Ken has described something local dive professional can agree fits the end result.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

The simple answer is not to pay.. don't pay until AFTER the trip?????

 

[dytis-sm]

Who would develop this protocol? Also who would enforce it?

I think the protocol always existed and even applied on this particular case. No paid diver was left behind. But there was a slip in communication and protocols when the missing diver jumped in the water alone. You can develop protocols but people have to follow them and that is where human errors come in play. From my experience (I dive a lot but cannot compare it to some of the diving pros here) this could have happened on any day the same way on any boat because I have never seen crew jump in the water using the same protocol as divers. My take is that they just tell one of the other DMs and jump in. I am sure it is discussed earlier in the day as one would have to setup gear before it happens. Since it happens after all other divers are on board and having a snack, I think there are only one or two people on deck that are aware or keep track of the diving crew. I think this was the case here too, and I am sure there is a boat DM out there who is reliving that morning in his head every day.

This case is very sad because a mistake that can happen any day happened coincidentally at the same time a diver was missing. Fortunately it does not happen often. We can all speculate and direct fault left and right, but the reality is that everyone involved in diving will make a mistake. You just hope that it will not cost someones life.

 

[LACounty4806]

The simple answer is not to pay.. don't pay until AFTER the trip?????

On dive boats in Southern California, most payment is done at the end of the dive day. Also, if they leave you behind, you don't have to worry about that anyway.

 

[Tribes]

I don't know if she had a BC (I was told that she did not, second hand, hearsay ), I do know that she had 14 pounds of non-dumpable weight at the beginning of the dive (6 pound plate and a faber, 3000 71 tank -8.45 pounds when full, -3.7 when empty). This could be a problem at 100 ft where there is almost no buoyancy from the suit, if she didn't have a BC.
The Faber steel 71 tank is a 3000 fill with a +10% over fill steel tank. If you get a 3300 fill you get 71 cu. ft. but say she got a boat fill say 2900 that only about 63 cu. ft. (not a lot of gas for a deeper dive).
We do know that she did not have a BUDDY.
More hearsay, some said she was going after bugs, I know some really good divers who have run out of air struggling with bugs, and had to do free accents (14 pounds of non-dumpable weight).
I don't think that the boat leaving had anything to do with her not coming up, I think that this was decided long before the boat moved (that's my opinion, burn me for it if you want, you know what they say about opinions).
I do think that this company not doing an over the top roll call (if it was me, I would line EVERYONE UP IN SINGLE FILE BEFORE WE LEFT THE DOCK and walk up and down the line looking them in the eyes and calling out their names, then march them to there numbered dive station and then repeat at each dive site) was not professional.
There will be a law suit and this company has all ready lost a lots of business (I guess that will make all you Haters happy).
The real problem with our community is that we just don't seem to learn from our mistakes we repeat them over and over again.

 

[scubadada]

I don't know if she had a BC (I was told that she did not, second hand, hearsay ), I do know that she had 14 pounds of non-dumpable weight at the beginning of the dive (6 pound plate and a faber, 3000 71 tank -8.45 pounds when full, -3.7 when empty). This could be a problem at 100 ft where there is almost no buoyancy from the suit, if she didn't have a BC.
The Faber steel 71 tank is a 3000 fill with a +10% over fill steel tank. If you get a 3300 fill you get 71 cu. ft. but say she got a boat fill say 2900 that only about 63 cu. ft. (not a lot of gas for a deeper dive).
We do know that she did not have a BUDDY.
More hearsay, some said she was going after bugs, I know some really good divers who have run out of air struggling with bugs, and had to do free accents (14 pounds of non-dumpable weight).
I don't think that the boat leaving had anything to do with her not coming up, I think that this was decided long before the boat moved (that's my opinion, burn me for it if you want, you know what they say about opinions).
I do think that this company not doing an over the top roll call (if it was me, I would line EVERYONE UP IN SINGLE FILE BEFORE WE LEFT THE DOCK and walk up and down the line looking them in the eyes and calling out their names, then march them to there numbered dive station and then repeat at each dive site) was not professional.
There will be a law suit and this company has all ready lost a lots of business (I guess that will make all you Haters happy).
The real problem with our community is that we just don't seem to learn from our mistakes we repeat them over and over again.

This thread is so frustrating. She would have a 6 pound steel plate but no wing? Divers should really not go OOA, but they do, that's our responsibility. Boats should not leave divers in the water, that's their responsibility.

"The real problem with our community is that we just don't seem to learn from our mistakes we repeat them over and over again" most sad of all...

 

[dumpsterDiver]

This thread is so frustrating. She would have a 6 pound steel plate but no wing? Divers should really not go OOA, but they do, that's our responsibility. Boats should not leave divers in the water, that's their responsibility.

"The real problem with our community is that we just don't seem to learn from our mistakes we repeat them over and over again" most sad of all...

My frustration would be directed toward people who dive deep, in thick wetsuits, with no ditchable lead. Having a wing is nice and (essential for me).. but a wing can fail in many ways, so I don't like depending on a wing to make it to the surface. A regulator could stop delivering air - for a variety of reasons - not always run out of gas.. I can't imagine diving a steel tank, steel plate, thick suit, deep dive and a bunch of non-ditchable lead. Not sure if this is the case here or not?

 

[yle]

I can't imagine diving a steel tank, steel plate, thick suit, deep dive and a bunch of non-ditchable lead. Not sure if this is the case here or not?

I interpreted Tribes' post as:

Steel plate, 6-lb negative
Full cylinder, 8-lb negative

Combined? 14-lb negative and "non-ditchable"

He didn't say she was wearing additional lead, and since he gave the 6-lb and 8-lb figures, I assumed these made up the 14 lb he referred to.

If she was wearing an additional 14 lb of lead, and that lead was non-ditchable... that would be a different situation. Maybe Tribes could clarify.

 

[boulderjohn]

This paragraph is not officially a mod post, but I want to remind people that in this forum, we do not participate in "blamestorming." It took me a while to understand that term, so I will assume others will not understand it as well. What this means is we do not write posts that assign blame to an incident to specific individuals or groups. When talking about the lessons learned, we can speak generically, such as "dive boats should not leave a site with divers still in the water." It can be a fine line at times, but try not to step over it.