Scuba diver goes missing off Catalina Island

[Magiciancapt]

Ken, you seem to know all the facts here! Question: was Laurel, an instructor and a student not on the manifest? Are you sure that the boat returned to Ship Rock in 20 min? Are you sure there was even a DM in charge? Think very carefully before you answer

 

[Magiciancapt]

When we (Reef Seekers) used to run a lot of local trips, I used to have frequent . . . differences of opinion . . . with some captains as to logging their diving crew members or boat guests on our roster. Many times the response was, "They're crew/my-guest. They're not your responsibility." My response was, "If they go in the water, they go on my list."

I remember diving with reef seekers and your DM's never called roll, they just looked around and said everyone is here! What say you?

 

[Ken Kurtis]

I remember diving with reef seekers and your DM's never called roll, they just looked around and said everyone is here! What say you?

That you have no clue as to what we were doing.

When we thought we had everyone back, the DM-on-duty would hand off the slate to another DM. That person would then walk around the boat and visually confirm that every person on our list was on board. When we saw you, you got checked off. If we weren't sure of your name, we asked you. if you were down in your bunk, we rousted you. While this was all going on, our other DM stayed on the back deck to make sure no one jumped in while we were roll-calling. Once we had visually seen everyone, we'd let the captain know, and then on a couple of the boats we would do a tank count as a further double-check.

BTW, our methodology was always explained during our pre-trip dive briefing where we explained that we do NOT do a everyone-to-the-back-and-listen-for-your-name but did what we called a "Silent Roll Call" in the manner described.

So I don't think what we did could hardly be characterized as "looked around and said everyone is here" but thanks for the troll. (And welcome to ScubaBoard. Seems like you just joined today and already are castigating. There's a lot of that going around . . .)

- Ken

 

[ChrisM]

Did a few reefseeker trips. That's not how it worked, as they explained in the briefing. Eta as Ken explained ^^^^

 

[Magiciancapt]

You didn't call roll is what you are saying?

 

[Johnoly]

.... My response was, "If they go in the water, they go on my list."

Great Response for the list !!

But it's still a manifest and everything put on the boat before departure still needs to be put on the manifest. That includes deck hands, guests, passengers, cooks and even the Captain's name. CG is pretty clear about the manifest and also how it's logged either with the harbor master or the CG office. Leaving port without a valid & filed landside manifest will get the capt's license in more than trouble, he would be toast as soon as he untied from the dock. That's 6 pack fishing vessel un-inspected basics 101, let alone a dive boat.

 

[Ken Kurtis]

You didn't call roll is what you are saying?

I'm going to try to treat you like an adult although it seems you're spoiling for a fight, don't realize this thread isn't about Reef Seekers, and might have a touch of ADD . . .

Which part of #124 do you not understand? The purpose of "roll call" is to ascertain that all divers are back on board. We did that as described above. Are you suggesting that the only way to achieve this goal is to shout out people's names? (FTR, that's a rhetorical question that you shouldn't feel compelled to answer, assuming you even read this far.)

If you have a serious question, I'm happy to answer it or even chat with you privately but if all you want to do is snipe along the lines of your posts above, I'll pass on responding to you further.

- Ken

 

[Dive Time Remaining]

I too am interested in how many people were left off the roster? Many of us have heard that the boat had pulled anchor prior to an instructor and student surfacing and that they were not on the roster. We have also heard there was not a DM in charge that logged people's times and kept watch during the dive? Can you confirm or deny Ken?

 

[Magiciancapt]

Try to hang with me for a second Ken. Here's another question for you: Did Sundiver do a verbal roll call before they left Ship Rock...not to be confused with the one they did at Yellowtail Point before the came back.

 

[CuzzA]

So this forum is about accident analysis, right? I'm going to defend Ken here on his contributions. He has brought more analysis to this incident than anyone else. He has held a position that leaving a diver is unacceptable, but also has pointed out the probability of her never surfacing. Dumpster makes a good point that by leaving her, she may in fact have been on the surface, but because they forgot about her, no one was even looking to see if she was in distress.

I think some of you are unfairly criticizing Ken's contributions as if he's defending the boat leaving her. I do not read it that way.

Here's my "personal" thoughts on this incident. Leaving a diver is unacceptable. However, after doing a little research about this dive site I think it's very risky to do a dive here without a BCD where the depths hit 300 fsw. It's very risky to dive in a kelp forest solo. You have no one to help you out if you get tangled in the kelp. And finally, adding the task of hunting always increases the possibility of an accident. It's just a simple fact more accidents happen to hunters. All of this combined, "to me" is a recipe for disaster. It may have nothing to do with what happened, but I would not do this dive that way. Furthermore, I don't know how close these dive operators anchor to the rock, but it sure looks like you're basically diving around an island where a short swim can have you hanging on a rock, assuming the current is manageable, which it sounds like that was the case on the day of the incident.

We will never know if leaving her contributed to her death or if it was purely coincidence. At a minimum the operation should be held accountable for that action.