Scuba diver dies after being found floating at Kurnell, NSW, Australia

[Diver0001]

I believe that they have been told by authorities to remain silent in public till the investigation is complete.

Correct.

I actually have some first hand experience with such things so I might as well entertain you all with a break down of what happens directly after an accident.

1) The first thing that happens is that it is treated as a crime scene. All the gear is seized, the victim's body is recovered and evidence is collected. This is logical because for obvious reasons police can't just take everyone's word for it that it was an accident.

2) in this phase the survivors are usually offered psychological help (where I live). At the same time they and all other witnesses are questioned by police and a dossier is built up with all accounts of what might have happened. During questioning the survivors may consult or be assigned a lawyer. These lawyers *always* tell them to keep their mouths firmly shut until the police investigation is finished.

3) The coroner's account is a key piece of evidence for the police so no decision about whether or not a crime has been committed will be taken without that input. The coroner usually does their job within a few days.

4) at some point the police will decide whether or not a crime has been committed. If the determination is taht it was an accident (as will be the conclusion in this case) then the survivor are "off the hook" and able to talk. We're not there yet.

5) the rest of what happens after that depends on whether or not there is a legal follow up, which there usually is. that could be criminal or civil case or between the victim's family and insurance agencies or whatever. This is the part that usually ends up being messy.

R..

 

[tracydr]

Dandy, I'm glad you DVT turned out that way for you but a very healthy young friend of mine was not so lucky, hence my giving it some consideration in this case.

Chilly Canada, I'm very sorry about your friend.

And Don,being young or healthy really doesn't put you in a lower risk category for DVT. There are some factors-international travel, that would elevate her risk. Was she taking hormone replacement therapy?
I recently found out that I've developed an antibody for my blood vessels, putting me at a very high risk for blood clots. I probably haven't had it that long but now I'm unable to go without anticoagulation. So, just being "healthy looking" doesn't always make someone a more healthy person, as far as things like blood clots. In fact, one of the higher risk populations for blood clots is actually young woman on birth control. Yet, who would think a young woman on birth control has a risk factor for much of anything? If you add any type of genetic clotting problem, of which there are dozens, you may suddenly tip the balance in favor of a clot.
I've gained a very healthy respect for blood clots in the past few years. First, my step-daughter a 30 year old with no apparent risk factors ( turns out she inherited hers) has a huge DVT, and now I have this antibody and a problem which will put me at very high risk, keeping me on life long anticoagulants.

 

[DandyDon]

And, being young or healthy really doesn't put you in a lower risk category for DVT. There are some factors-international travel, that would elevate her risk. Was she taking hormone replacement therapy?

Ok, some still want to discuss leg pains. Okee dokee, good luck on that. As I said...

A year later, I wondered if I had another one - and did go in. The doctor couldn't give me an answer without another whole barrage of tests & ultrasounds, even tho he really knew. Luckily I sensed this in he guarded discussion and phrased my question: "Are these the kinds of symptoms that go with DVTs or sore muscles?" "Muscles." I walked. Even since, my grandson bruised his inside thigh in a dumb bicycel fall so badly that I went to town to take him to get a professional opinion as neither of his parents could get off that day, and then ended up going to the ER with him next as the nurse practitioner couldn't call it. Finally saw an ER doctor who laughed and said get an ice pack. It can be challenging to find a reasonable approach at times.

 

[tracydr]

Let's please just wait for the coroner's report

What happened to Accident Analysis? I realize that we are hurting because Quero is a SB member and close to many of our members but there are some things to learn from this incident. JAX did a great job detailing possible causes. We have somebody diving new equipment ( drysuit) and one of the most common causes of diving injury/death is uncontrolled ascent. Even if it wasn't the case in this particular incident, it's something deserving of analysis and something that we can learn from. It certainly can prompt discussion of why a drysuit class needs to be taken, why you shouldn't go straight out on a 100 foot dive in a rough ocean with currents in your brand spanking new drysuit without practicing in a swimming pool and quarry. Some SB members might not know that. I remember, 10-12 years ago, when I first considered getting a drysuit, I had no idea why I needed a class. I thought the dive shop just wanted to sell me another silly cert card.
That lethal little jelly fish in Australia, well, I for one learned a lot from that. Who knew? Not to mention, doesn't Australia have a large population of highly lethal, regular box jelly fish?
These types of things can be discussed and don't have to be the ACTUAL cause of Quero's death. They are possible causes and lead to learning.
Medical-I bet there are a lot of SB members who know nothing about deep venous thrombosis, risk factors, how they lead to pulmonary embolism and death. What to look for and when to run/not walk to the hospital for testing. ( figuratively, don't run with a DVT!)
Please don't shut this healthy discussion down with "let's wait for the official report" because that will do so little for the learning value of these tragic events.

---------- Post added October 10th, 2013 at 10:52 AM ----------

5. They screw up.

I realize that no one wants to believe that someone they've heard of on the internet could screw up and cause their own death, but none of us are infallible. Least of all any of us who dive regularly, professionally, etc. There's no trap like confidence when it comes to being shown how reality differs from the legend in our minds.

Hopefully the dive buddies come forward and tell their story. I won't hold my breath for a medical examiner's report shedding any light on this at all.

So often, when we here of a well-known technical divers death it is #5. Usually this is on more complicated,technical dives like the recent death of the cave diver who took a mismarked bottle of O2 and breathed it at 100 feet for his bottom gas. But, this is absolutely another possibility.

 

[nimoh]

What happened to Accident Analysis? I realize that we are hurting because Quero is a SB member and close to many of our members but there are some things to learn from this incident. JAX did a great job detailing possible causes. We have somebody diving new equipment ( drysuit) and one of the most common causes of diving injury/death is uncontrolled ascent. Even if it wasn't the case in this particular incident, it's something deserving of analysis and something that we can learn from. It certainly can prompt discussion of why a drysuit class needs to be taken, why you shouldn't go straight out on a 100 foot dive in a rough ocean with currents in your brand spanking new drysuit without practicing in a swimming pool and quarry. Some SB members might not know that. I remember, 10-12 years ago, when I first considered getting a drysuit, I had no idea why I needed a class. I thought the dive shop just wanted to sell me another silly cert card.
That lethal little jelly fish in Australia, well, I for one learned a lot from that. Who knew? Not to mention, doesn't Australia have a large population of highly lethal, regular box jelly fish?
These types of things can be discussed and don't have to be the ACTUAL cause of Quero's death. They are possible causes and lead to learning.
Medical-I bet there are a lot of SB members who know nothing about deep venous thrombosis, risk factors, how they lead to pulmonary embolism and death. What to look for and when to run/not walk to the hospital for testing. ( figuratively, don't run with a DVT!)
Please don't shut this healthy discussion down with "let's wait for the official report" because that will do so little for the learning value of these tragic events.

I agree that everything you pointed out makes for great discussions. However, they are not really related to this incident without more information, so it is more appropriate to discuss them in other threads. We have been down this path before, and it is only a matter of a few pages before someone posts "I thought it was already determined that a DVT was the cause"

 

[down4fun]

I'm kind of hoping that the coroner's report will give us the answers. I know for sure that Quero would have wanted us to have this discussion and it will come. For the time being it's better, in my mind, to just be patient.

R..

One can hope the coroners report will give you answers. It seems in most cases all it say is COD drowning. It does not give the causation just the final means.

 

[Diver0001]

I realize that we are hurting because Quero is a SB member and close to many of our members.

That's what happened.

I knew Quero well and I know for sure she would want us to discuss it. The emotional pleas to wait for more details are just that. I can only speak for myself but this time it's different. This time I want, somehow, to honour her memory by doing something to keep the discussion "pure".

No moderator will stop it if the discussion goes on. We've all posted here as normal users so these requests are person-to-person and not staff-to-community. Most of us are still trying to deal with the shock and mourning so, dear Tracy, if we're not entirely our normal selves then please cut us some slack.

R..

 

[tracydr]

Don-you said she " was a much better diver, much more reasonable and much healthier than you". How does that help you to rule-out the possibility of DVT? Do you think that she is more likely than you to seek medical help or less likely than you to get a DVT and/or die of a DVT?
I submit that as a population, a 62 year old woman from Brazil is likely to be on hormones, elevating her risk of DVT.
As far as being reasonable. Would you assume that a doctor is reasonable? You have no idea how many doctors, including me, have walked around, gone to work and refused to seek treatment for incredibly painful/and or serious conditions. In fact, I would venture to say, the more motivated, successful, and higher level achievements that a person has accomplished, the more likely that they are, rather than less, to ignore serious medical issues, especially when it comes to having to miss something they really love or are highly motivated to do-diving, working in medicine, etc. Does anybody know if Quero was having shortness of breath or difficulty breathing? Note, this could have started on the dive.

Doctors ( intelligent, educated, high achievers) tend to ignore physical ailments, even when they know that something might be or is serious, if it could mean that they might miss a final exam ( I walked around with a leg that was black from the hip to the toes and had compartment syndrome from a horse kick, lost feeling on the side of my leg). Divers will dive even when sick or injured. High level athletes and high level explores-I can name many explorers who died on explorations because they refused to quit.

I didn't know Marcia well but the fact that she mentioned this leg pain and that she was taking ibuprofen, well to me, that's a big fat flag. Could be a herring but not until it's ruled out.

 

[phoenix31tt]

That's what happened.

I knew Quero well and I know for sure she would want us to discuss it. The emotional pleas to wait for more details are just that. I can only speak for myself but this time it's different. This time I want, somehow, to honour her memory by doing something to keep the discussion "pure".

No moderator will stop it if the discussion goes on. We've all posted here as normal users so these requests are person-to-person and not staff-to-community. Most of us are still trying to deal with the shock and mourning so, dear Tracy, if we're not entirely our normal selves then please cut us some slack.

R..

This I respect immensely... For being able to admit that its an emotional plea and you will not disrupt the natural running of things

 

[tracydr]

Ok, some still want to discuss leg pains. Okee dokee, good luck on that. As I said...

And you didn't have that second leg pain. That rules it out for Marcia,how?