Scuba diver dies after being found floating at Kurnell, NSW, Australia

[gypsyjim]

Actually we cannot agree on all of those. For new and newer divers those are ok. But a number of us don't see the need to always dive with a buddy.

I certainly don't. And quite often a buddy is a liability on the dives I want to do when I can do them.

But there is also clear instructions that if something happens to me while diving solo or with a buddy to immediately start to dissect the whole incident. Speculation, conjecture, and even wild ass guessing and monday morning quarterbacking should be done.

In fact I demand that it be done as soon as the news is out. My loved ones know my wishes and have been told to stay away from any threads discussing it. It is not for them.

It is for those who may make a similar mistake, if that was the cause, to avoid making the same one. If I did something stupid I want it broadcast loud and far.

I want to be blamed for it and chastised mercilessly so someone else will think twice about pulling the same stunt.

As a conscientious instructor that is the ethically and morally right thing for me to desire.

My family has no say in this. If they do look and get upset it is their own fault. Not that of the people discussing it.

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Knowing you slightly, Jim, I have to respect your wishes, but I would see no value at all in "wild ass guessing"before any true facts are available. There can be little to learn if the guessing and Monday morning quarterbacking muddies the waters so badly that the facts when they do come out are lost, and whatever chance there is to learn from the accident is lost.

 

[boulderjohn]

As many of you might surmise, because she was a friend and moderator, we moderators have access to more sources for this incident than the general public, but we really don't know any more than anyone else does right now. As someone who has been reading A & I threads for a long time now, I assure you that it is rare to have an incident with so little information available. Marcia and I worked closely together on some projects. I am totally torn to pieces about this. I ache to know more. I haven't the foggiest idea what could have caused it, though, so anything I would write would be a complete stab in the dark. Usually we have some clue to work with, but here we have next to nothing. I am therefore going to sit back and wait and wait and wait until some facts come out.

 

[Jax]

5. They screw up.

That is covered in the "1.", Complacency.

I have found that reasonable speculation has opened my mind so *I* consider a lot more when evaluating the risks of a dive.

The four items I listed, IMO, are the factors when an experienced diver dies.

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---------- Post added October 10th, 2013 at 06:50 AM ----------

But there is also clear instructions that if something happens to me while diving solo or with a buddy to immediately start to dissect the whole incident. Speculation, conjecture, and even wild ass guessing and monday morning quarterbacking should be done.

In fact I demand that it be done as soon as the news is out. My loved ones know my wishes and have been told to stay away from any threads discussing it. It is not for them.

It is for those who may make a similar mistake, if that was the cause, to avoid making the same one. If I did something stupid I want it broadcast loud and far.

I want to be blamed for it and chastised mercilessly so someone else will think twice about pulling the same stunt.
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Hear, hear! I've told my family the same.

If even one person learns from the cuss and discuss, it is worth it.

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[mathauck0814]

That is covered in the "1.", Complacency.

I have found that reasonable speculation has opened my mind so *I* consider a lot more when evaluating the risks of a dive.

The four items I listed, IMO, are the factors when an experienced diver dies.

I disagree that poor judgement or a mistake is the same as being complacent, but it won't do us any good on this thread to hash out the semantics of it. So long as you accounted for the possibility that a diver can take an action or series of actions that causes their death without extreme environmental or equipment failure, we're on the same page.

 

[grf88]

I believe that respectful speculation does have value as it makes us more aware of just what can go wrong. Maybe this thread has made people more aware of DVT. Many of us fly to far off destinations to dive and on long flights DVT can be an issue. She was 62, and as most of us older than 60 can attest minor aches and pains from exertion are a fact of life and not something that we would normally complain about to others which suggests to me that the pain in her leg was more than just a minor strain and something more serious.

 

[beaverdivers]

It's my sad duty to inform users that we have reason to believe that the diver in question was one of our moderating staff.

Quero

We have no specifics regarding what happened. Needless to say this has made a very deep impression on all of us and I would like to implore people not to speculate and to await further factual information.

On behalf of the Scubaboard staff,
Rob

This terrible incident points out how serious our sport is.

 

[DandyDon]

I've seen many accidents and incidents threads with lots of speculation and other posts with people defending such as theorizing is part of the forums rules...

I know Quero was huge part of our community but I don't see the harm in theorizing based on current information as being harmful as long as its within the rules...

I've seen two valid speculations based on the limited information (DVT and Drysuit issues, additionally people wondering if getting cold so quick into a dive means anything)... All of this is information that existed beforehand

I haven't actually seen the rampant or totally unjustifiable speculation that exists in many other threads... I say its all good thus far..

Please remember, speculation gives us the opportunity to think of things we may not have before... Especially for newer divers like myself... Regardless of if the true cause is revealed eventually

I agree, except we don't have any known problems to work with. Many of us are eager to know and/or many of us speculate with suspected causes as a learning experience in these threads - but there's not anything to go with here other than wild guesses. I get a sore leg if I sit wrong at my computer wrong, but nothing.

I believe that respectful speculation does have value as it makes us more aware of just what can go wrong. Maybe this thread has made people more aware of DVT. Many of us fly to far off destinations to dive and on long flights DVT can be an issue. She was 62, and as most of us older than 60 can attest minor aches and pains from exertion are a fact of life and not something that we would normally complain about to others which suggests to me that the pain in her leg was more than just a minor strain and something more serious.

I was lucky with mine as I did ignore it as a pulled muscle for several days, then went diving in another state as well as hosting my out of town GF for the weekend - quite strenuous. But then that clot could have broken lose and caused a stroke before I even got my dive gear packed. It probably would have been good for me to see the doctor much sooner, but I might not have gotten that far.

A year later, I wondered if I had another one - and did go in. The doctor couldn't give me an answer without another whole barrage of tests & ultrasounds, even tho he really knew. Luckily I sensed this in he guarded discussion and phrased my question: "Are these the kinds of symptoms that go with DVTs or sore muscles?" "Muscles." I walked. Even since, my grandson bruised his inside thigh in a dumb bicycel fall so badly that I went to town to take him to get a professional opinion as neither of his parents could get off that day, and then ended up going to the ER with him next as the nurse practitioner couldn't call it. Finally saw an ER doctor who laughed and said get an ice pack. It can be challenging to find a reasonable approach at times.

Still, she was so much more reasonable that I, I think - if the leg had gotten worse with the flight, I suspect she would have called the dives instead of going in like I did. I just don't see enough to discuss at this point, but I am confident the Aussie officials will release their findings soon enough.

As mention, her diving buds are probably still too much in shock to give us more info now. If that changes, that could be helpful, but encouraging speculation at this point is too far fetched even for me. For them to come here to discuss it would probably be helpful to them, but I've observed that rampant speculations in an A&I thread and discourage such witness participation.

 

[gypsyjim]

I believe that they have been told by authorities to remain silent in public till the investigation is complete.

 

[phoenix31tt]

I agree, except we don't have any known problems to work with. Many of us are eager to know and/or many of us speculate with suspected causes as a learning experience in these threads - but there's not anything to go with here other than wild guesses. I get a sore leg if I sit wrong at my computer wrong, but nothing.

but we do... the three bits of information discussed (pain in leg, drysuit issues, cold issues) have already provided healthy speculation... and has benefited me already

 

[tracydr]

So sad. I saw that she had posted in one forum a couple days before she died that she was asking about a new wetsuit or Drysuit because she was finding herself getting cold 10 minutes into a dive. Perhaps there was also a medical reason explaining that she was getting that cold so early in a dive? I will wait to hear/read more details before jumping to the wrong conclusion.


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She was learning to use a new drysuit. She was getting cold because she underestimated the amount of undergarments that she would need for the 60 degree water.
She did tell me, in a PM, that she was having a much harder time learning how to use her drysuit ( buonyancy issues) than she expected, and we were commiserating that it can be harder to learn drysuit diving after diving decades in a wetsuit.

---------- Post added October 10th, 2013 at 10:13 AM ----------

I believe that she was diving a new dry suit, and struggling with controlling her buoyancy.

Around last Fri she mentioned leg pain that she was taking Ibuprofen to try to releave, and she thought the leg pain was associated with her struggling to control her trim in the new dry suit, and in shallow diving conditions.

I have no idea if any of this is remotely involved in what happened, though.

At this point there is no value in speculation. There is an on going investigation that we will have to wait for.

Hmm. All that traveling and leg pain. Hmmm.

---------- Post added October 10th, 2013 at 10:18 AM ----------

Quero was built like me, and I get cold diving 80F water in a 7mm wetsuit.

So much could have happened with the drysuit.

An inadvertent breath-holding -- it only takes 4 feet, you know.

An uncontrollable ascent -- too much gas in the feet of the suit -- I hate that.

Of all things, take away: It can happen to any of us, at any time.

I get cold in 80 degree water, too. I would not assume coldness is caused by a medical issue. It could, however, cause problems. Delayed reactions, etc. she was diving with inadequate undergarments with her new drysuit, basically just a base layer, instead of having a base layer and layer for warmth.