MostlyHarmless
Registered
Sadly I was gone due to work and missed quite a few posts... So please bear with me
I do agree with you, on some points.
1) Using a Computer other than Queros to calculate air consumption is easily posible. Provided we have two Known variables to work from in which to prove the unknown variable. (Math requires two points of reference to create the third)
2) Not knowing when she actually ran out of air drematically effects the results (Especially when one is trying to prove she would run out of air to begin with.)
3) The figures you previously posted in post 625 will be acurate enough for Theorizing
Let us Agree that all your math was accurate, I will concede every aspect of that and defer to your personal knowledge of the dive location, as I have never personally been there. I will also attest that you know your own personal air consumption better than any other person could.
The information we have (aka the two known variables to measure) Depth of that similar to the other dive buddies computer. And at the time on surface she had 50bar
Your math concluded (based on your air consumption) that when she surfaced she would have had 15-20bar which would have read as 25-30bar (Because the gauge reads 10bar at empty) you conclusion was that she guessed at the reading of 50bar, and therefore did not have enough air left and was destined to run out during the dive. Great Hypothesis, however when you chose to ignore the 50bar variable (our only other known variable for Queros dive) your data stoped reflecting her dive and the Known variable became the air consumption of our substituted diver. Therfore the conclusion that the substitute diver would have likely run out of air on that dive is not necisarily "accurate enough" to prove Qeuro would have run out of air.
If we were not trying to prove she did, but merely if she might have. Then only half the math is done.
When we conclude that using your air consumption rates when she surfaced you would have had 15-20bar Which would have read at 25-30bar, we know she said she was at 50bar. To get as close of an accurate calculation as posible we need to take that statement to be true (not a guess on her part) so with faulty readings of 10bar discrepency as our margine of error that means she had arround 40bar. Whats the mathimatical conclusion? Regardless of what we would expect, she has better air consumption than our substitute diver.
Now because you didnt actually show your numbers for your math I cant calculate what Queros air consumption would have been. So we will allow for a margine of error, your conclusion was our substitute diver would have likely run out between her surface point and the beach, but allowing for the 10-20bar discrepancy she could have run out between the beach and the car.
I stand by my statement we cannot "accuratly" calculate this with another persons dive computer and a different divers Air consumption. We both used the same math to prove she would have run out of air somewhere between the point she Surfaced and the Car, that is a HUGE margine of error. When we substitute our guesses for Facts, no matter how scentific our math may appear, it is still Theory and Guessing not Fact which is why access to Queros dive computer is so important. Without it we can keep substituting information untill it proves our preconceived picture of what occured which is not Investigation.... its Storytelling.
If I were investigating this, had acess to one of the Dive Computers, and I honestly wanted to know if Quero would likely have run out of Air. I would calculate the Distance from Surfacing to the beach, use the substitute divers Air consumption rate and then see if It could be done on 40-50bar worth of Air. It wouldn't be as impressive as calculating the entire dive, but it would be easier and produce as accurate results.
I do admit different people have access to different information, being as some people on scuba board are friends and family of the divers involved. It seems to me the Mods like Diver0001 have done a great job at relaying information from All Three Divers, I am sure they are as careful as posible to include info All Three Divers agree to be true, or only information that the specific divers were imediatly present for. I as many others are, am very curious to see what your Theorys are regarding the events of that day based on the information you have. As you stated earlier you have spoken to One Diver yourself.
While I Do agree that the only new information will be hypotheses and nothing overly substantiated untill the police report is released.
I have to also agree with gysyjim as well.....
I personally made a post a couple of pages earlier to Clarify exactly what "Credible" information has come forward.
I really hope that we will get a chance to see the "Official Report" from the individuals who have ALL the Facts. Including the Police Interviews of all the divers, and the Autopsy Reports, as well as the Gear Including HER Dive Computer. Truth is we may never get the opportunity to see much more information than was already posted. So as it sits we have likely learned as much as possible from this event. (this is evident as two people have posted theories or statements that have already been hashed out) Personally I feel this thread has reached the point where everyone can finally move on, start to finalise the healing process. It has greatly helped many people come to terms with the Shock of this tragic event. Here is hoping we can all finally put this behind us.
I do agree with you, on some points.
1) Using a Computer other than Queros to calculate air consumption is easily posible. Provided we have two Known variables to work from in which to prove the unknown variable. (Math requires two points of reference to create the third)
2) Not knowing when she actually ran out of air drematically effects the results (Especially when one is trying to prove she would run out of air to begin with.)
3) The figures you previously posted in post 625 will be acurate enough for Theorizing
Let us Agree that all your math was accurate, I will concede every aspect of that and defer to your personal knowledge of the dive location, as I have never personally been there. I will also attest that you know your own personal air consumption better than any other person could.
The information we have (aka the two known variables to measure) Depth of that similar to the other dive buddies computer. And at the time on surface she had 50bar
Your math concluded (based on your air consumption) that when she surfaced she would have had 15-20bar which would have read as 25-30bar (Because the gauge reads 10bar at empty) you conclusion was that she guessed at the reading of 50bar, and therefore did not have enough air left and was destined to run out during the dive. Great Hypothesis, however when you chose to ignore the 50bar variable (our only other known variable for Queros dive) your data stoped reflecting her dive and the Known variable became the air consumption of our substituted diver. Therfore the conclusion that the substitute diver would have likely run out of air on that dive is not necisarily "accurate enough" to prove Qeuro would have run out of air.
If we were not trying to prove she did, but merely if she might have. Then only half the math is done.
When we conclude that using your air consumption rates when she surfaced you would have had 15-20bar Which would have read at 25-30bar, we know she said she was at 50bar. To get as close of an accurate calculation as posible we need to take that statement to be true (not a guess on her part) so with faulty readings of 10bar discrepency as our margine of error that means she had arround 40bar. Whats the mathimatical conclusion? Regardless of what we would expect, she has better air consumption than our substitute diver.
Now because you didnt actually show your numbers for your math I cant calculate what Queros air consumption would have been. So we will allow for a margine of error, your conclusion was our substitute diver would have likely run out between her surface point and the beach, but allowing for the 10-20bar discrepancy she could have run out between the beach and the car.
I stand by my statement we cannot "accuratly" calculate this with another persons dive computer and a different divers Air consumption. We both used the same math to prove she would have run out of air somewhere between the point she Surfaced and the Car, that is a HUGE margine of error. When we substitute our guesses for Facts, no matter how scentific our math may appear, it is still Theory and Guessing not Fact which is why access to Queros dive computer is so important. Without it we can keep substituting information untill it proves our preconceived picture of what occured which is not Investigation.... its Storytelling.
If I were investigating this, had acess to one of the Dive Computers, and I honestly wanted to know if Quero would likely have run out of Air. I would calculate the Distance from Surfacing to the beach, use the substitute divers Air consumption rate and then see if It could be done on 40-50bar worth of Air. It wouldn't be as impressive as calculating the entire dive, but it would be easier and produce as accurate results.
I do admit different people have access to different information, being as some people on scuba board are friends and family of the divers involved. It seems to me the Mods like Diver0001 have done a great job at relaying information from All Three Divers, I am sure they are as careful as posible to include info All Three Divers agree to be true, or only information that the specific divers were imediatly present for. I as many others are, am very curious to see what your Theorys are regarding the events of that day based on the information you have. As you stated earlier you have spoken to One Diver yourself.
While I Do agree that the only new information will be hypotheses and nothing overly substantiated untill the police report is released.
I have to also agree with gysyjim as well.....
Additional information HAS been posted, as it became available.
I personally made a post a couple of pages earlier to Clarify exactly what "Credible" information has come forward.
I really hope that we will get a chance to see the "Official Report" from the individuals who have ALL the Facts. Including the Police Interviews of all the divers, and the Autopsy Reports, as well as the Gear Including HER Dive Computer. Truth is we may never get the opportunity to see much more information than was already posted. So as it sits we have likely learned as much as possible from this event. (this is evident as two people have posted theories or statements that have already been hashed out) Personally I feel this thread has reached the point where everyone can finally move on, start to finalise the healing process. It has greatly helped many people come to terms with the Shock of this tragic event. Here is hoping we can all finally put this behind us.
Additional information HAS been posted, as it became available. 
