Scuba diver dies after being found floating at Kurnell, NSW, Australia

[mtngoat2674]

I found some comfort in re-reading the book Fatally Flawed by Verna Van Schaik. It somehow gave me comfort during the past week while thinking about Marcia's accident. Verna has some very intense writing about her own thoughts on death and dying. Highly recommend this to anyone trying to find some sense from this accident.
I realize this isn't on-topic but I thought it might provide some comfort to somebody feeling pain. You can also chat with Verna via Facebook if you would like. She's a remarkable woman and teaches a motivational method called DARE.

I'm actually in the middle of that book myself. If I could remember to bring my kindle along when I have downtime, I would be further into it. . Good so far though.

 

[victorzamora]

Why did you start fining to the surface instead of going to your buddy? Did your buddy shut your tank off as a prank or joke? You should take your conversation to another thread. Mods?

My story wasn't to detract from the thread in place. The details of it are insignificant. My point was that I was a much less experienced diver, on one of my first drysuit dives ever, in about the same depth she was in, with a similar problem, and my mind did NOT resort to panic. I was not as grossly overweighted as some people believe Marcia was, and I am a guy with strong legs.....those ARE differences, but why my buddy did it and why I didn't go to him aren't relevant.

This was covered many posts ago. To summarize, with balanced regulators you get no warning that your air is about to run out. with unbalanced regulators you get some warning as the work of breathing increases. It has nothing to do with the age of the regulator.

No, but older regulators are less likely to be balanced. Right?

This is part of the problem isn't it. He instinctively tried to solve the problem first instead of swimming to / or signalling to his buddy and working out the problem with an available supply of air.

I didn't "instinctively" do anything. My instinct would've been to KICK HARD AND FAST to the surface. I wasn't an ultra-experienced instructor that had practiced air-sharing procedures a billion times. It was one of my first long-hose dives. It was one of my first drysuit dives. After a 5 year hiatus, I had had less than 25 dives. I evaluated my situation, figured out what the likely causes were, and checked them. The only thing I didn't do was go straight to my SPG, but I had gotten out of the habit of checking on it frequently as it was a new configuration for me (clipped off on my left hip vs a gigantic console). My air checks were all conscious decisions. My point wasn't that I know EXACTLY how Marcia responded, or what was going through her head. My point was that I had a very similar set of issues and had time to think about it. I'm not saying it couldn't have been what caused the tragedy here, I'm just saying that sucking on a dry reg doesn't kill you instantly nor does it drive you crazy instantly.

 

[buddhasummer]

Im sorry at this point in time for me Marcia's premature death is not softened by "at least she died doing something she loved" I'm not debating whether it's better to die doing something you love but for whom is that fact comforting? The person dead is unaware of this and it actually only becomes valid if you are dying a slow painful death and can think about an alternate ending. To be honest I think it only serves to make those left behind feel better which isn't a bad thing but let's call it like it is and not romanticize it. I know it's been said hundreds of times in this thread already but honestly how tragic this is. I think alls been said that can be said.

The thread seems to be morphing into something else I apologize I'm not as eloquent as others on this board, I'm not even sure I'm making any sense.

The only thing that is not conjecture but fact is Marcia's gone and it's having a big impact on so many people, she was a great person and will be missed by so many.

Marcia, you've gone and I'm sad. My dive tomorrow will be with you in mind.

Im out...

 

[ScubaPink]

Maybe the popularity of these threads is, indeed, due to figuring out, at least trying to, what happened and applying that in any future dives you may do. However, may I also suggest that grasping for a reason, or "she could have done this," "I would have done that" etc. is because, deep down, if we solve the riddle we can say- this is not going to happen to me because.........But I will say, with all of the skill-sets and experience she had, this happened to her, and it really can happen to each and every one of us. I believe this and yet I will still continue to dive. I continue to educate myself, but not consider myself too good to fail. Like buddasummer....."Im out"

 

[Lorenzoid]

Would it be possible for someone to start a new thread that lists only the facts that may be uncovered, such as any further autopsy or other test results, results of investigations by authorities, first-hand accounts from the dive team, etc.? Closing in on 700 posts, and while the discussion has been interesting, the facts get buried.

 

[DandyDon]

Would it be possible for someone to start a new thread that lists only the facts that may be uncovered, such as any further autopsy or other test results, results of investigations by authorities, first-hand accounts from the dive team, etc.? Closing in on 700 posts, and while the discussion has been interesting, the facts get buried.

Well, the facts that are known to some authorities are not all in yet, and I suspect there may have been some special instructions to let the thread discussion run with minimum moderation if any, as learning opportunity. I know that I'd want my fatal accident discussion to run that way, and klutz diver that I am along with some of my known opinions - I suspect it'd be a doozy. I'd only hope that my family not follow it, but somehow I could from the afterlife.

I'd be fine to restate the known facts in posts here from time to time, but as with all threads - no matter how long, anyone who posts without reading the entire discussion will still miss questions & answers previously given and reask.

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

Sorry... I'm confused. On the A&I forum, we look for lessons learned. Are the preceding statements claiming that, somehow, this incident is justifiable because something worse may have happened further down life's line? I'm really confused as to the point of these posts in relation to Marica's tragic death.

I agree, but since she was "known" to many of us, at least through PM's and other shared conversations, it is a way to help deal with the loss. It has been hard for many of us to be totally objective because she was not a "stranger".

Overall I think everyone has done a great job, considering many "knew" her.

Best wishes.

 

[Divedoggie]

Interesting query by Quero.
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/aqua-lung/423981-zuma-trim-weight-pockets.html

This hints at the fact she was used to diving overweighted while being sensitive to her trim and balance.
The analysis in this thread paints a clearish picture as to the likely chain of events, but leaves some blanks which may never be filled in.
One of those blanks looks to be that she had a plan(her own plan not communicated to the rest of the team, but neverless, a plan). Evidence shows that she was well aware of being overweighted, and experienced and comfortable being overweighted.

Has there actually been an autopsy released with cause of death?
Was the dive computer AI?

Many questions will be answered when that information becomes available.

----------------

Lessons can and will be learned, and indeed it has stimulated introspection. In my personal diving, and as an underwater photographer, it has begged me to ask if I can improve my team skills. Can I be a better buddy?

Professionally, I've extensively discussed this situation with the candidates in my current DM class.
How could the group have done better? What can we learn and apply to our diving?

Some of our discussion:

1. Communication, predive planning, post dive debriefing.
A.) Quero's straying on previous dives had frustrated the group. A plan to alleviate those frustrations should have been implemented. If no consensus could be reached, they could have cancelled the next dive.
B.) Define and agree on expectations of teammates. Buddy contact and obligations vary among individuals.

2. Mid-Dive (assumed) buddy switch.
A.) Divers 1&2 started together. Divers 3&4 started together. If diver 2 decides to go with diver 4 part of the way through the dive, all parties should be aware and in agreement. Assuming that diver 2 is proceeding with diver 4, without confirmation, just relies on luck.

3. Define the goal for the dive and who will lead.
A.) Was the goal to photograph Weedy Sea Dragons? Were they all there to support Quero's quest to do that. Was she (in her mind) by default leading the group in her quest?

4. Regardless of level of frustration, finish the dive together.
or thumb it
or insist on immediate behavior change.

5. Who hasn't gotten a little looser at the end of an easy shore dive, in shallow water?
....Especially if everyone in the group is very experienced....
Less diligent buddy contact, taking back gas below reserve, assumption that everyone can easily finish the dive and exit on their own, are dangerous practices.
The likelihood of OOG, DCI, dehydration, hypothermia, hypoglycemia, and exhaustion, are greater at the end of a dive.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

FWIW - many dive instructors chronically dive overweighted. That's because when you're working with students it's much easier to just pull out some of your own weight for the student if they need it than it is to go back to a buoy, boat, or beach to retrieve more weight.

Once you get used to diving that way, you often don't make adjustments for those times when you're not teaching.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[gypsyjim]

FWIW - many dive instructors chronically dive overweighted. That's because when you're working with students it's much easier to just pull out some of your own weight for the student if they need it than it is to go back to a buoy, boat, or beach to retrieve more weight.

Once you get used to diving that way, you often don't make adjustments for those times when you're not teaching.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I have seen quite a few instructors and DM's do that over the years, and wondered just how much extra weight some of them have on board.
While I am not, and never intend to be a DM or an Instructor I have many times seen a diver in need of a little extra bit of lead, and pulled one out of a pocket, or off my belt to give them. Since I do try to carry as little weight as possible I often then have to locate a decent size rock to carry in my hand, or tuck away to maintain my buoyancy.

A few times when I have been playing with new gear set ups, a I have found myself miscalculating, and being a good bit over weighted, and I could see how it could get me into trouble pretty darned easily.

As I read Quero's posts during the Oz trip, as she was working on her trim in the dry suit, she seemed to be considering adding a bit extra weight as a way to help her achieve proper trim.