Scary dives in Coz last week

[goofygirl]

goofygirl,

I don't know how Cozumel got a reputation as a good location for new divers. It's a great dive destination, but it's an advanced destination.

I appreciate your concern. I never implied that Coz is a GOOD location for new divers, but I've never heard that it was off limits to new divers either.

I would NEVER attempt to dive so deep or such an advanced site at our current experience level. I've looked at various lists and descriptions of the various dive sites on Coz and there seem to be plently of shallower (30-80') sites to keep us happy and safe and those are the sites we plan to stick to. Unless of course you think even that is unwise.

 

[nwdiver2]

With your buddy’s poor air consumption I can’t believe you made a good choice to dive deep, on the first day. The person most responsible for your safety is you and you gave that responsibility over to your DM, wrong move.

You could stay on the shallow reefs, have nice relaxed long dives and enjoy yourselves. You got pumped up on adrenalin and went over the edge twice; you should have learned from the first day and spent a pleasant 2nd day. I don’t waste my air or dive time any longer on the Devils Throat in Coz. I can have as good a dive on Columbia Shallows.

As to the thought Cozumel is advanced, I believe it is good for new divers. The only advanced part is depth over the edge and the ripping current on the Northern Reefs. The current on the Southern reefs is fine and after several days in the shallows a novice is ready to drop over the edge down to 90 foot or so on Palancar.

Novice beware of the traps you set for yourselves.

 

[gj62]

Secondly, before my inbox explodes from PMs and this thread becomes about the evil dive operator in Cozumel, I should say that I don't want to take it that way. Maybe that's a cop-out, but I think it's a situation any of us could find ourselves in going with ANY op. If we avoid Shop X at all costs, don't we just have a false sense of security?

Sure, the DM was unreliable, but since I did not talk to the dive op about him, is it fair for me to talk about the dive op to the world on SB? Because so many of people want to know their name, I realized it's my responsibility either to tell you or to tell the dive op about Gabriel, so they can deal with him, which is what I'm going to do. I truly do think they are a very good operation, so they do need to know about this guy's unsafe behavior.

I'd like to ask you to reconsider witholding the name of the operator and the DM. Here are my reasons:

1) As you can see, many people dive Coz who are not experienced enough to be there. You would be helping them tremendously by knowing who to avoid. The DM may work for several shops, so knowing both would help.

2) You should tell the shop, but they are also responsible in part and may not aggressively follow up with your complaint.

3) I agree that the shop should not be boycotted, however, this was a truly dangerous situation. A person's well-being is worth more than the dive shop's reputation. Let them earn back our respect by identifying the operation and letting people decide themselves what should be done.

Newer (and perhaps infrequent) divers especially tend to forget that they are responsible for their actions, no one else. However, in a sport where you continue to learn, a novice diver is often the least reliable person to make the determination on whether they are prepared for a dive - especially since they often cannot know all the dangers that they face. (A hard overhead at 130' - jeesh!). However, in a resort setting, the industry as a whole would be better off if operators considered "Is this person ready for dive X", and be prepared to tell people "no".

I've been reading another thread about a Ramada Inn who inadvertantly overcharged a person's credit card, then provided poor service. This certainly isn't life-threatening, and yet it will make me more cautious when dealing with this particular hotel.

Don't kid yourself - your situation *was* life-threatening. Maybe the shop has no responsiblity in some people's view, but I disagree. I hate to state this blatantly in a post, but it should be obvious - wouldn't it be a shame if a novice (or any) diver is injured by this shop/DM? By your own admission, your buddy long thought there was nothing wrong with the DM. By knowing who they are, everyone (skilled / novice / infrequent divers) can make the determination of who to use with more information.

 

[coppermaus]

I could not agree more, Parrot. But, having said that (and at the risk of sounding daft), I have been to Cozumel twice and done 11 dives there, but none of them have been to Devil's Throat. What is the big attraction to Devil's Throat? Is there anything in particular to see down there that you can't see at, say, 80 feet? I love going into swim-throughs, but there are plenty of them above 100 feet. I've been down to 114 feet there before, but it wasn't in a tunnel.

Y'know, it wasn't that great really. Not much to see in a tunnel. But then that enormous eagle ray we saw after we came out of the tunnel, now THAT was cool. All the problems aside I can honestly say the swim-through part of it wasn't that impressive. Lots of sand clouds to see, mainly.

Can anyone else tell what's so cool about it?

BTW, Coppermaus -- I'm glad you made it back to the boat OK. I know you feel responsible about your dive buddy, but tell me something...was he excited about going with you, or did you have to twist his arm to go? You had already said in your intro that he does not share the same passion for diving that you (and the majority of us) do.

Dunno. He doesn't get very excited about anything (including 162'), so it's hard to tell with him. If he REALLY likes something he'll say it's not half bad. :54:

There is little question in my mind that when he was mindlessly following the dive guide rather than you, he was really narcked (they probably were both quite narcked, for that matter). Hope you have better luck the next time you go.

Yeah, I wondered. And I kept poking at my own brain to see if it was behaving normally at 150'+. Do you actually know when you're narked? Either at the time or afterwards? There have been times I didn't know I was drunk til the next day when I said OMG I can't believe I DID that, but at the time I thought I was fine. Since I believe I stayed pretty focussed in the water, I don't know.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I don't recommend Coz to new divers as a rule because of the drift diving and common depths.

However, for divers who are determined to go there I suggest that they talk to oporators ahead of time and let them know what kind of dives that you are comfortable with. It doesn't hurt to check some references on the oporator either. I use to have one place that I recommended but I think he's retired now. IMO, Cozumel can be an ok place for new divers IF they get with the right outfit and do appropriate dives.

I've heard lots of scary stories from former students about Cozumel dives. New divers often feel obligated to dive way to deep because that's what the boat has planned or they feel that it must be ok because the DM says so.

I can directly thank some of the Cozumel oporators for the development of my OW class lectures on trust me dives and some of the things I add about deep diving (aimed more to discourage them in the early stages of their diving than to teach them how).

I just heard way too many stories like this and worse.

 

[gj62]

Yeah, I wondered. And I kept poking at my own brain to see if it was behaving normally at 150'+. Do you actually know when you're narked? Either at the time or afterwards? There have been times I didn't know I was drunk til the next day when I said OMG I can't believe I DID that, but at the time I thought I was fine. Since I believe I stayed pretty focussed in the water, I don't know.

No, you cannot count on knowing you are narc'd, or, if you realize you might be, exactly how much it is impairing your judgement.

That is one of the issues that make it more dangerous than newer people give it credit for. It is not "just like being drunk" - at least not in terms of risk - it is much more dangerous, though you probably know this by now...

 

[parrotheaddiver]

I could not agree more, Parrot. But, having said that (and at the risk of sounding daft), I have been to Cozumel twice and done 11 dives there, but none of them have been to Devil's Throat. What is the big attraction to Devil's Throat? Is there anything in particular to see down there that you can't see at, say, 80 feet? I love going into swim-throughs, but there are plenty of them above 100 feet. I've been down to 114 feet there before, but it wasn't in a tunnel.

At the risk of sounded jaded. It is like the blue hole in Belize. It's a been there done that dive.

I have been there (devils throat) several times not a paticular favorite but you ultimately get on a boat with someone who wants to do it and you go.

The thrill is the swim throughs and coming out of the tunnel an looking down into the blue abyss , but it is usually a quick glance before you have to go. I have only seen one large animal on that dive an eagle ray.

There are much better dives that you can stay at longer Santa Rosa for one I prefer longer bottom time more than thrilling dives but everyone like something different.

 

[5615mike]

Y'know, it wasn't that great really. Not much to see in a tunnel. But then that enormous eagle ray we saw after we came out of the tunnel, now THAT was cool. All the problems aside I can honestly say the swim-through part of it wasn't that impressive. Lots of sand clouds to see, mainly.
Can anyone else tell what's so cool about it?
Dunno. He doesn't get very excited about anything (including 162'), so it's hard to tell with him. If he REALLY likes something he'll say it's not half bad. :54:
Yeah, I wondered. And I kept poking at my own brain to see if it was behaving normally at 150'+. Do you actually know when you're narked? Either at the time or afterwards? There have been times I didn't know I was drunk til the next day when I said OMG I can't believe I DID that, but at the time I thought I was fine. Since I believe I stayed pretty focussed in the water, I don't know.

If you were not willing to have the discussion with the DO about your DM's antics then how do you expect for these things to get resolved if your not willing to stand up for your personal safety? If not that, then at least share the info with other divers about what is going on at particular operations so they can at least make an INFORMED decison about thier diving. Why in the world is a DM diving with broken gear and taking novice divers to 150+?

What if you had not been so level headed, narc'd out of your mind and not able to assist your so called buddy at 150+? You both may have had very serious problems. At the least a trip to the chamber. Do you have insurance? If not, then how were you going to pay for the chamber costs? They are not cheap. Going to try to recoup from the DO? Good Luck.

Just give your options some more consideration about sharing the particular DO.

 

[coppermaus]

If you were not willing to have the discussion with the DO about your DM's antics then how do you expect for these things to get resolved if your not willing to stand up for your personal safety?

You didn't read my earlier post about this. I notified the dive op as I said I would and will report back on their response.

 

[5615mike]

You didn't read my earlier post about this. I notified the dive op as I said I would and will report back on their response.

Sorry I missed that. I guess I meant why did you not discuss it with them while you were there?