SAR network - an idea.

[Michael McKinney]

@NYCNaiad. Exactly what I'm trying to suggest.

If this group exists now, I would actively contribute to it and train to be a volunteer SAR diver so I'll be able to help out immediately when called. Plus whatever that helps the group achieve the goals.

 

[NYCNaiad]

@NYCNaiad. Exactly what I'm trying to suggest.

If this group exists now, I would actively contribute to it and train to be a volunteer SAR diver so I'll be able to help out immediately when called. Plus whatever that helps the group achieve the goals.

I've seen some posts about SAR groups, but haven't yet seen a group which seems to help in the ways we've been talking about. I'm hoping someone can dig down into this to see if there is such a group. I don't think there is currently, but I hope I'm wrong. (Another idea though I think one which is less likely to be successful is to see if one of the groups already out there for hikers & such would be willing to consider adding a subgroup for water-based global SAR.)

But let's break this down piecemeal. I'll gather all the info re: how to help divers help themselves & write an article. Next step is for someone to own the research on the groups which are out there now & whether they meet divers' (& other water-based folks) needs or not. If not, what pieces are missing. Would you be willing to begin researching this? Would someone else?

 

[DandyDon]

I think there's a real need for a group who has experience in SAR specifically for water-related activities

Like the Royal National Lifeboat Institution - Wikipedia
and Independent lifeboats in Britain and Ireland - Wikipedia?

On the side, I write for a major scuba diving magazine. I'm going to write an article about SAR & what divers need to know to help themselves be found.

That could be a major help to any who read it. Hope you'll post it here on SB, too.

 

[JohnnyC]

I think part of the problem is that there tends to be a significant difference in response to diver incidents, and typical man overboard operations.

The IUCRR and BCRC already have framework in place to activate a cave rescue, the Thai cave rescue being a good example, and the numerous recoveries that have taken place around the world.

However, the response profiles tend to be significantly different, even when search operations are involved, depending on what activity is involved. A typical diver lost scenario has much more in common with a man overboard scenario than a dive incident, or a cave recovery, yet we don’t treat it in the same manner as we would as a man overboard.

I think we need to be much more proactive in developing responses more inline with the realities of the situations, and getting the individual actors involved to treat it as such.

 

[JXT71]

How brutal of an answer do you want @Michael McKinney? Two divers - from the middle of nowhere - fly to a remote island, in a foreign country, and forgo basic diving safety (no local hazard or emergency plan), with a divemaster who doesn't know what to do in the situation, working for a dive shop that doesn't have contact with local authorities, and DAN couldn't offer a medical or LE contact? The problem with the scenario you gave isn't a matter of SAR coordination or who to call. It's those divers being complacent or negligent.

A good local SAR coordinator would negate the need for your external one. It would basically BE the person on the other end of the phone for that call. It would also have the benefits of being on-site, having local knowledge, and familiarity with adjacent resources. It may also have better pull internationally.

But I know what you're getting at. I don't think ideas like this are bad, but when they're fueled by passion it's easy to gloss over the important parts. Like funding and logistics. You're proposing something that would rival the emergency response capability of a city... maybe more. And you want it to be globally effective? AND react within a day? What you want is a spec-ops expeditionary unit.

I still think the development of a framework an agency can adopt would be a better option - or even just having agencies add a DSO and PSD manual tweaked for underwater SAR.

Our ideas clash where I'd recommend reinforcing local agencies, while you guys want to establish your own group to support them or operate independently. From my limited SAR experience, public assistance is a double-edged blade. If you're really interested in making progress with this, it couldn't hurt to contact your own local SAR team, TechRescue team, LE agency, or others like the Red Cross to get their opinion on your idea.

 

[NYCNaiad]

...Our ideas clash where I'd recommend reinforcing local agencies, while you guys want to establish your own group to support them or operate independently

I don't think the ideas clash at all. I want both...a group who can help supplement/reinforce local agencies who either don't have the knowledge or the money, and can assist divers as needed.

I don't think it's realistic to believe that all these local agencies around the world (especially in impoverished areas) can perform the best SAR. Some places will never have the money or the training. So while a SAR in places like the UK or US or whatever country has a solid SAR organization may not need a group to assist them, they could still benefit from preventative education provided by the group to divers. Whereas a tiny island in the middle of nowhere could benefit from all of the other items I described in my previous post.

 

[RayfromTX]

The best resource in addressing these issues is to have a resource that has the knowledge experience and wisdom to assess the situation and provide guidance for how to marshal and deploy resources immediately. Take that as completely open ended. The resources could be private, governmental and international. The situation could include searches above and below the surface. The tools employed could include planes, helicopters, boats, drones, ROVs, beech volunteers, infrared arial reconnaissance, divers in the water and that is just what was used in this search. Computer modeling showing drift and current profiles is used as well. We also needed funding, press contact, social media updates and logistical support on the ground.

A person that is familiar with this and has broad knowledge of the geographical areas that are involved along with experience with how all this plays out would be a valuable resource in deploying available assets quickly and effectively. Oh, not to mention, this person needs to know their way around interacting effectively with all the agencies and governments that have their own SAR operations in place.

Now who would that be? Would it be a group? How would it be funded and how would it be advertised? It seems to me the most important part is the person with the knowledge and wisdom. Without that you have not much more than you could do with a wiki page. The person is what would matter. Building an organization around the effort in the absence of the human asset I'm describing could be an ineffective waste of time.

Just my thoughts at the moment.

 

[JohnnyC]

Just registered sarnetinternational.com .net .org and .info

I'm willing to transfer those domains to anybody who wants to head this up. I know nothing about web development, but I figured it's a good name to describe the mission. Paid for 5 years worth of registration. It's yours if you can do something with it that would benefit the community. It would be awesome if we could get somebody to donate some webdev, donate some hosting space (I can't imagine it would take much), and ideally it would be a community supported project.

I'm envisioning, at the very least, a database of usable SAR assets, volunteers or otherwise. It could easily have different categories as well, for example, SAR assets dedicated to coastal rescue, IUCRR and individuals related, SAR assets dedicated to high angle rescue, etc. by region. We could start in the US since that's probably the easiest info to aggregate, and additional regions could be added as assets are confirmed willing to be listed. Individuals and organizations alike could be made available if the need arises. There are plenty of small regional SAR organizations. But I know that cave rescues are often, "you need to call this guy," and the ball rolls from there (see Edd Sorenson and Mike Young heading to the Dominican at the request of DRSS). Other stuff might take on a more formal process like getting the USCG involved.

I get that this will be a process. People will need to confirm assets, confirm contact information, confirm availability, etc. It could even be ad-supported if manufacturers like ACR, Orion Signal, etc. get on board, and doesn't have to be limited to those types of companies. I'm sure other safety companies would like the exposure. "MSA sponsors worldwide rescue network," etc.

Anyway, thoughts? @The Chairman do you know anybody that might fit the bill? @HowardE know the best place to start? I work in live entertainment, not the interwebs.

 

[NYCNaiad]

Just registered sarnetinternational.com .net .org and .info

I'm willing to transfer those domains to anybody who wants to head this up. I know nothing about web development, but I figured it's a good name to describe the mission. Paid for 5 years worth of registration. It's yours if you can do something with it that would benefit the community. It would be awesome if we could get somebody to donate some webdev, donate some hosting space (I can't imagine it would take much), and ideally it would be a community supported project.

I'm envisioning, at the very least, a database of usable SAR assets, volunteers or otherwise. It could easily have different categories as well, for example, SAR assets dedicated to coastal rescue, IUCRR and individuals related, SAR assets dedicated to high angle rescue, etc. by region. We could start in the US since that's probably the easiest info to aggregate, and additional regions could be added as assets are confirmed willing to be listed. Individuals and organizations alike could be made available if the need arises. There are plenty of small regional SAR organizations. But I know that cave rescues are often, "you need to call this guy," and the ball rolls from there (see Edd Sorenson and Mike Young heading to the Dominican at the request of DRSS). Other stuff might take on a more formal process like getting the USCG involved.

I get that this will be a process. People will need to confirm assets, confirm contact information, confirm availability, etc. It could even be ad-supported if manufacturers like ACR, Orion Signal, etc. get on board, and doesn't have to be limited to those types of companies. I'm sure other safety companies would like the exposure. "MSA sponsors worldwide rescue network," etc.

Anyway, thoughts? @The Chairman do you know anybody that might fit the bill? @HowardE know the best place to start? I work in live entertainment, not the interwebs.

That's very kind of you. I can create the web site, set up hosting/social media, help with advertising, & write the content.* I was already going to do some of this for Cameron's nonprofit scuba group which helps Cree Nation kids so I have no problem transferring that energy to this venture instead. (I'm a VP of Product Management in technology in real life.)

*Caveat: However, I do not have the bandwidth to head up this organization as all my "free" time is taken up by writing for a major scuba publication & volunteering for my dive club. And like @RayfromTX noted, we would need someone who already has some of this SAR knowledge.

 

[DandyDon]

I think you are going to need a licensed entity to take care of the money. An insurance company licensed everywhere to collect premiums, work with SAR and other volunteers, manage emergency searches, pay out mega bucks. Really, I cannot see any company smaller than DAN managing it, and it'd still be a big step for them.