SAR network - an idea.

[DandyDon]

Doesnt DAN already provide search and rescue benefits on their highest tier plan? I don't know how effective it would be give. The problems with resources that were encountered in Mexico. It would eleiminate the delay from getting the crowd funding campaign up and going though.

DAN | insurance: dive

Jay

Offered only in some states. It has to be approved by respective state insurance departments. The bribe expense in Texas may be prohibitive for example.

I have the highest tier & I don't believe there is SAR coverage.

Not approved in New York, traditionally the state with the strongest insurance rules overall.

Search and Rescue Benefit (Available only under the Guardian Plan) When United States Life receives due proof that the Insured disappeared while making a Covered Dive and the Coast Guard, local Police, or other National or International service responsible for safety at sea undertake a search in an effort to save the life of the Insured, we will provide reimbursement for the expenses of the search and rescue effort up to the benefit limit. Reimbursement shall be limited to expenses incurred by organizations which are specially trained and approved to undertake search and rescue operations. No benefits are payable for expenses for which an Insured is not required to pay or charges made only because insurance exists. "

And then there is the exclusion. Not only is it considered after the fact, SAR usually doesn't charge fees in most countries, so nope.

 

[DandyDon]

I remember an American couple going missing in Australian waters, eventually found after significant SAR searching, then went on a US TV talk show. Asked about the great amount of money spent to find them, she said that they had DAN dive insurance to cover that. She was totally wrong, but DAN did contribute maybe $1,000. Appearances were worth it I suppose.

I think this was them. Ok, one was American. They made money off of their story so they were asked to donate some of that.
Divers who survived night in shark-infested waters have to pay for their rescue

 

[MargaritaMike]

Reimbursement shall be limited to expenses incurred by organizations which are specially trained and approved to undertake search and rescue operations.

It's this sentence which can also generate non-payment. The private planes and helicopters that have been hired probably are not "specially trained and approved to undertake search and rescue operations". The money the GoFundMe effort raised that was used to cover these efforts would not be reimbursed - probably. The insurance company always wins. They word policies so that the event has to be very specific and the conditions of payment are also very specific. If you can get all of the stars to align, then "ding ding ding we have a winner", but in the long run the insurance company wins. Have you ever seen an insurance company doing business out of a 2-room shack?

Offered only in some states. It has to be approved by respective state insurance departments. The bribe expense in Texas may be prohibitive for example.

It's not offered in Texas. I guess in need to be found quickly. I doubt I could raise $100 in a GFM effort. Some people might even pay to leave me out there!

On a serious note, I would pay $1 or $2 per dive to go into a SAR fund. With some organization and resources identified and ready to go this could really save some lives. I'm for it.

Cheers -

 

[NYCNaiad]

Just checked CT and NJ, they both have it... Might want to use a different mailing address...

I appreciate the thought, but using a different address is illegal & considered fraud if I don't have some tie to that location. I'm sure any company having to pay out up to $50K for SAR would thoroughly confirm my address.

Not approved in New York, traditionally the state with the strongest insurance rules overall.

Yep, I get screwed by a lot of things living in NY. I also can't get annual travel insurance & instead have to pay per trip. Sigh.

 

[DandyDon]

This is the main thing. They only pay after the fact for required SAR fees, but SAR usually does not charge.

And then there is the exclusion. Not only is it considered after the fact, SAR usually doesn't charge fees in most countries, so nope.

 

[Jay]

What do you all think?

I think it's an excellent idea. Particularly if it can cover popular diving locations that do not have well funded Govt. SAR resources.

FYI - DANAP doesn't seem to have any SAR coverage option available.

 

[JXT71]

At the risk of sounding pessimistic, ideas like this aren't new. They often appear when a high(er) profile emergency event happens since people get motivated to do something. Rather than building a new organization, wouldn't it be better in the long run to review, monitor, or reinforce the effectiveness of the established local resources? Say, the inclusion of an annual multi-agency joint-training exercise that mimics historic scenarios, followed up with an after action report where everything is analyzed and improvements are made. The event and results can be covered by local or social media which would provide a means to get funding for the cause, and info to the public. Volunteers can be had in advance if an agency offers some type of basic course outlining what was expected of them, and annually keeping tabs on volunteers and any related technical abilities.
I'd suggest something like this first, since it may not be the issue of a lack of resources, but a lack of trained or prepared resources. Rather than pooling and burning money on your own to act as a crutch, we can instead hope to make local response even more efficient and effective.

 

[Michael McKinney]

@JXT71 Okay. But let's imagine a scenario.

Let's pretend that I'm an occasional diver that got his certification from Uncle Bob's Dive Shack that is being run out of some instructor's backyard in the middle of nowhere, USA. I don't know about ScubaBoard - I haven't ever heard of that board. I'm not popular or well-known. I also have a DAN insurance.

One day, I decide to fly out to, say, Roatan to do some vacation diving. I found somebody at the Uncle Bob's Dive Shack that is also interested, so we fly out to Honduras together.

The dives is going very well... until my buddy doesn't come back up from the water. Uh oh. A divemaster and I jump back into the water with a new tank but still couldn't find him.

Now, being an occasional diver from the middle of nowhere, USA, and isn't as popular as Cameron - and doesn't even know ScubaBoard exists, what do I do next? I don't know. Maybe I'll speak to the shop that took us out to the dive site. Maybe they'll be able to help?

I know! I'll call DAN - maybe they'll do some search and rescue stuff too, their policy says they will pay for it! Nope, they can't do anything - but they donated $1,000 toward the search and rescue/recovery effort.

Then what? I'm in a foreign country that I've never been to before - who the hell do I speak to?

Wouldn't it be better to have a number that I could call and have everything coordinated and ready to go on Day 1 - when the chance of finding him alive is still high, rather than fumbling around in a foreign country trying to charter some plane and SAR teams, then trying to raise some fund to pay the pilot/teams?

Just take a look at the Cameron incident. Planes and teams were sent out 2nd or 3rd day after he was reported missing due to people having to look for anybody that could fly and raising the money to pay them. And he's very well known and has a large number of people willing to do anything to find him. What about me, a diver from the middle of nowhere that barely has any friend? (Only pretending, mind.)

Wouldn't it be better to have a centralized group that has a list of every resources/volunteers/etc that can be tapped immediately and have money to pay for the resources right away instead of waiting and raising the fund, wasting precious time that could be used to find the diver alive?

 

[DandyDon]

Wouldn't it be better to have a centralized group that has a list of every resources/volunteers/etc that can be tapped immediately and have money to pay for the resources right away instead of waiting and raising the fund, wasting precious time that could be used to find the diver alive?

This group? International Search and Rescue Advisory Group - Wikipedia

And then there is this government service for Americans: US Beacon Registration

As far as funding, that'd be an insurance function. You could ask DAN to oversee obtaining one, but their track record for insurance shopping other than Dive Insurance is not very impressive, DAN has suffered from plenty of corruption in the past, and the risks still exist. Still, it's be better than trying to invent an insurance company yourself.

Of course, the first step would be to minimize the need. Got any ideas on how to get divers to carry a PLB? DAN and the agencies won't do it because it'd discourage business.

 

[NYCNaiad]

At the risk of sounding pessimistic, ideas like this aren't new. They often appear when a high(er) profile emergency event happens since people get motivated to do something. Rather than building a new organization, wouldn't it be better in the long run to review, monitor, or reinforce the effectiveness of the established local resources? Say, the inclusion of an annual multi-agency joint-training exercise that mimics historic scenarios, followed up with an after action report where everything is analyzed and improvements are made. The event and results can be covered by local or social media which would provide a means to get funding for the cause, and info to the public. Volunteers can be had in advance if an agency offers some type of basic course outlining what was expected of them, and annually keeping tabs on volunteers and any related technical abilities.
I'd suggest something like this first, since it may not be the issue of a lack of resources, but a lack of trained or prepared resources. Rather than pooling and burning money on your own to act as a crutch, we can instead hope to make local response even more efficient and effective.

I wish local resources would have more training & would be able to help more, but I don't know that this is realistic either. Maybe some bigger island or huge dive mecca, sure. But many places that need this will never have that type of resources or money at hand.

I think there's a real need for a group who has experience in SAR specifically for water-related activities:

• For education to train divers on the importance of a PLB, personal locator beacon, Nautilus, in water streamer, radar/reflecting sausage, etc. All the things that will help someone be found even if there are few resources in the area to conduct a search.
• To pay money in advance to local communities to allow search to be started immediately. (Just like with a chamber & DAN & not like the DAN search & rescue program which pays after the fact.)
• To host a worldwide database of contacts to help with the search which could grow over time (e.g., municipal/state/federal contacts, local SAR, local shops/rescue divers, press contacts, etc.).
• Have a checklist of action items that can be done by the group, by the family & friends of the divers, by anyone involved in the SAR, & by people in the area. Something which can be used as a mini-training on the fly for all involved.
• To serve as a centralized source to manage everything & be a point of contact so people in all these different areas don't have to serve as experts & be handling calls/texts/emails/SB messages while also doing the search itself. The group could also be available 24/7, have their info published publicly, & have phone numbers that are reachable no matter where you are in the world (like DAN). No matter how good someone like the lead on Cameron's SAR is, no single person can excel at managing all of this like a group can.

I'm going to put my money where my mouth is & start the ball rolling with bullet point number one. On the side, I write for a major scuba diving magazine. I'm going to write an article about SAR & what divers need to know to help themselves be found. I was left at sea by a shop in the Bahamas for an hour and a half while a hurricane was coming in & the waves rose to 6 feet. It was absolutely terrifying. At one point, we saw a boat in the distance. They didn't see us even with a huge safety sausage. After we were finally found, that's when I started carrying extra safety gear with me & I've shared the need for that already as a bullet point in an article or two. But I know Cameron as a fellow mod here & had just started to begin a friendship with him outside of the board. Because of that & because of this thread, I'm now going to focus an article on diver preparedness for situations like these which happen more often than we know.