Safe Second Inflators vs Octopus Regs

[NadMat]

In an OOG emergency, I was taught that with the configuration you are speaking about, I was to donate my primary and using my right hand, securely grasp my buddy's harness. If I am holding my buddy with my right hand, that takes the right shoulder and right hip dump valves out of the equation.

I find I am able to reach both of my right dumps with either hand, so it is not a problem to dump air from them, but just use left shoulder dump because is most convienient.

...
If you grasp your buddy with your left hand, that might work. Up until the point that you decide you need to add a little gas in your wing. (Remember that your buddy is out of gas and may not have enough air in their wing to maintain neutral. Swimming up is of course an option but then the whole notion of balanced rig, another contetious topic, comes into play.)...

I do not have a problem adding gas using either hand, but am more practiced and familiar with using my left. And swimming up should be an option, as if it is not, buddy is overweighted. Plus, buddy should also be able to manually inflate to control bouyancy( although we should be decreasing our bouyancy as we ascend to offset increasing bouyancy of exposure suit and bc air due to decreasing pressure)

agree with you. Everyone should try different configurations to see what works best for them. Have you tried hanging an octopus (or backup regulator) using a bungee around your neck? You might be surprised to find that it is actually easier than any other gear configuration out there. There is never a question as to where your back up is when you need it. And, you wind up using your inflator/deflator exactly the way you normally would use it durning a non emergency.

That would suprise me as I have tried an octo bungied up, and I did not like it at all. Would rather have it tucked out of way somewhere, or not have it at all. Which is why I like the airII style of secondary reg.

But that is why everyone should try different configs and find out what works for them.
On this I agree completely.

Is also good knowledge when you buddy with someone diving the other configurations. And whatever you get, train with it until becomes automatic and boring.

 

[Adobo]

And whatever you get, train with it until becomes automatic and boring.

Make sure to train reaching across your body to dump air also.. Apparently that might become SOP in an an emergency.

 

[NadMat]

Make sure to train reaching across your body to dump air also.. Apparently that might become SOP in an an emergency.

While I'll agree that is good to train for all possibilities, I don't see why it would be SOP.:06:

Usually my right hand would be holding buddy, and left hand controlling my inflator/deflator/secondary, using it to dump air. No need to reach across unless problem with left dump valve.

 

[PaulChristenson]

Why? IIRC, Ideations makes a couple different versions of the Dive Alert with the different sized quick disconnects, specifically to work with the different inflator/octo combo devices.

I was in coversation with Dive-Alert and they were the ones that recommended not to have it inline...at least that is what they told me when I was looking into Air2 several years ago, they had concerns about too many connections...I was just passing it along...

I bought my Dive-Alert and I stayed with a normal octo...

Which I have used more than once...the Dive-Alert, that is...

 

[Adobo]

While I'll agree that is good to train for all possibilities, I don't see why it would be SOP.:06:

Usually my right hand would be holding buddy, and left hand controlling my inflator/deflator/secondary, using it to dump air. No need to reach across unless problem with left dump valve.

Left shoulder dump valves are generally part of the inflator/deflator mechanism, correct? To dump from the left shoulder, you need to tug on the inflator/deflator which will open the valve on your shoulder. At least that is what I remember from my old zeagle and the rental scubapros from the LDS.

As my current BC does not have the left shoulder dump, I really don't know for sure. Isn't it difficult to hold the air2 in your mouth and tug on it at the same time to open the left should dump? It's either that or take the air 2 out of your mouth and raise it over your head to vent gas out of your BC. (and of course, there is always reaching over to your right shoulder with your left hand. I assume you are a vertical ascent diver and therefore venting gas from your butt dumps is not an option.)

Maybe several bad assumptions on my part.

 

[NadMat]

Left shoulder dump valves are generally part of the inflator/deflator mechanism, correct? To dump from the left shoulder, you need to tug on the inflator/deflator which will open the valve on your shoulder. At least that is what I remember from my old zeagle and the rental scubapros from the LDS.

As my current BC does not have the left shoulder dump, I really don't know for sure. Isn't it difficult to hold the air2 in your mouth and tug on it at the same time to open the left should dump? It's either that or take the air 2 out of your mouth and raise it over your head to vent gas out of your BC. (and of course, there is always reaching over to your right shoulder with your left hand. I assume you are a vertical ascent diver and therefore venting gas from your butt dumps is not an option.)

Maybe several bad assumptions on my part.

Guess you could say it is more difficult with secondary in mouth than it would be if were still breathing off of primary. But not that much more difficult. Still easier than reaching across for other dumps with left hand.
But otherwise your assumptions were ok, except that while I would be doing vertical ascent for the OOA, at other times I would probably be ascending horizontally till done with safety stop.

 

[mahjong]

If you are using a save second...make sure that you do not have your Dive Alert in-line...

Hi. Could you elaborate as to why?

 

[Mandy3206]

I'll use the long hose primary and necklace octo config in overhead enviroments or deco dives.
For recreational diving, the integrated inflator/octo is perfectly good, in fact I prefer it and have never had any problems with the setup in many yrs using it.

The dive alert and sub alert are plugged all the time and I can't find any reduced air flow.

The only problem I see is if you have to unhook the lp hose, you loose the octo (still can manually control bouyancy), but since it's a no deco dive at recreational depths, you should be able to get out of the water without any problems if you loose the octo.

If you plan on deco dives or overhead enviroments, get the apropiate gear for that type of dives.

 

[Charlie99]

I was in coversation with Dive-Alert and they were the ones that recommended not to have it inline...at least that is what they told me when I was looking into Air2 several years ago, they had concerns about too many connections...I was just passing it along...

I suspect there was some miscommunication or misunderstanding. http://www.divealert.com/divealert.html clearly shows that they have 3 versions, including one specifically designed for ScubaPro Air 2.

 

[mahjong]

Yes, I use the Dive Alert designed for the Air2, so I was wondering why you offered a definitive don't use it...

I use an Air2 because I already have a second second-stage coming off my pony...I don't like the extra contraption and connections presented by the Dive Alert, but I view the Dive Alert as a VERY important piece of safety equipment, so I simply remain aware that it is there and work my Air2/inflator carefully...

I suspect there was some miscommunication or misunderstanding. http://www.divealert.com/divealert.html clearly shows that they have 3 versions, including one specifically designed for ScubaPro Air 2.