S Drill Etiquette

[TSandM]

If you go for your secondary regulator, and it doesn't work, then I think you weren't diligent in your checks pre-dive. My secondary regulator is directly under my chin. It is breathed during the pre-dive equipment check, and it is working. I can't think of anything that is likely to happen to that regulator in the course of the dive that would change that status, except perhaps a freeflow, something of which I would have been immediately aware, due to its position.

 

[DCBC]

If you go for your secondary regulator, and it doesn't work, then I think you weren't diligent in your checks pre-dive. My secondary regulator is directly under my chin. It is breathed during the pre-dive equipment check, and it is working. I can't think of anything that is likely to happen to that regulator in the course of the dive that would change that status, except perhaps a freeflow, something of which I would have been immediately aware, due to its position.

That's not necessarily true. Anything that's mechanical can cease to function properly when it's needed. I've checked equipment on the surface and 5 minutes later it has malfunctioned. I'm not saying that it's likely, but the chance is still there nonetheless. Knowingly donating a clear working primary has no useful purpose; two regulators have to be retreived and cleared instead of one.

Lynn, I'm not knocking what you choose to do; I just don't agree that it's a preferable method. If we were diving together, I would be happy to understand that you would offer me your primary if it was required. You could expect to retrieve my secondary. Knowing what to expect before an OOG situation is half the battle.

 

[Randy43068]

Not likely, I'd take my chances in this sutuation.

That's not necessarily true. Anything that's mechanical can cease to function properly when it's needed. I've checked equipment on the surface and 5 minutes later it has malfunctioned. I'm not saying that it's likely, but the chance is still there nonetheless. Knowingly donating a clear working primary has no useful purpose; two regulators have to be retreived and cleared instead of one.

Lynn, I'm not knocking what you choose to do; I just don't agree that it's a preferable method. If we were diving together, I would be happy to understand that you would offer me your primary if it was required. You could expect to retrieve my secondary. Knowing what to expect before an OOG situation is half the battle.

 

[TechBlue]

That's not necessarily true. Anything that's mechanical can cease to function properly when it's needed. I've checked equipment on the surface and 5 minutes later it has malfunctioned. I'm not saying that it's likely, but the chance is still there nonetheless. Knowingly donating a clear working primary has no useful purpose; two regulators have to be retreived and cleared instead of one.

Lynn, I'm not knocking what you choose to do; I just don't agree that it's a preferable method. If we were diving together, I would be happy to understand that you would offer me your primary if it was required. You could expect to retrieve my secondary. Knowing what to expect before an OOG situation is half the battle.

The only problem with that logic is exactly why you donate your primary because you know it is working and you have it in your hand controlling the situation should you need to buddy breath, if you hand your safe second to an OOG diver and it doesn't function you have the potential of going from a stressed situation to a panic situation and a wrestling match.

 

[rollerboi]

That's not necessarily true. Anything that's mechanical can cease to function properly when it's needed. I've checked equipment on the surface and 5 minutes later it has malfunctioned. I'm not saying that it's likely, but the chance is still there nonetheless. Knowingly donating a clear working primary has no useful purpose; two regulators have to be retreived and cleared instead of one.

IMO, the OOG diver is already in a stressful place. You are in a less stressful place, and thus better equipped to handle a fresh breath of gas. As Lynn said, diligence in pre-dive checks (and I might add, diligence in servicing/maintaining the gear) goes a long way. Since the secondary is bungied under the neck, it is less stressful for you to find, recover, and use. If you find that it's not working, then at least the person who needed gas the most (hint: not you) has been able to get some and get back to a safer state of mind.

A calm diver can control a CESA on that breath of air much easier than a panicked diver who feels like they're about to breathe water.

As for those contemplating Bob's solution, I have a much easier one. Just carry a third hose, ready to strategically deploy if necessary. Leave the poor donkey on the surface, your dive buddy will be sufficient. It helps to dive with the most obnoxious person on the boat, the one-up guy. If you're that guy, then I suggest having a A-hole (as opposed to the P-valve) installed on your drysuit with the proper catheter insertion.

 

[Randy43068]

IMO, the OOG diver is already in a stressful place. You are in a less stressful place, and thus better equipped to handle a fresh breath of gas. As Lynn said, diligence in pre-dive checks (and I might add, diligence in servicing/maintaining the gear) goes a long way. Since the secondary is bungied under the neck, it is less stressful for you to find, recover, and use. If you find that it's not working, then at least the person who needed gas the most (hint: not you) has been able to get some and get back to a safer state of mind.

A calm diver can control a CESA on that breath of air much easier than a panicked diver who feels like they're about to breathe water.

As for those contemplating Bob's solution, I have a much easier one. Just carry a third hose, ready to strategically deploy if necessary. Leave the poor donkey on the surface, your dive buddy will be sufficient. It helps to dive with the most obnoxious person on the boat, the one-up guy. If you're that guy, then I suggest having a A-hole (as opposed to the P-valve) installed on your drysuit with the proper catheter insertion.

This is some really.. REALLY funny stuff. I've tears in my eyes from laughing so hard!
Thanks!!

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I suppose it depends if you consider yourself as a rescuer or not. The first rule of being a rescuer is that you never put yourself in danger. If you give away a functioning primary and go for your secondary and it doesn't work, you're screwed (you may both die).

Due diligence ... part of any pre-dive equipment check is making sure that both of your second stages are functioning.

Furthermore, if your backup reg fails, most are designed to fail in an open ... not closed ... position. So failure will mean it's free-flowing ... you'll know about it long before you have to hand it off.

I've delt with OOA situations on a few occassions in the past and have never had a problem with offering a secondary. If it doesn't work, the other diver may be screwed, but I'm also prepared to buddy breath if I feel the diver is capable. I check my secondary prior to the dive and stow it properly. It has a 5 ft hose.

And what makes buddy breathing any less likely that you're going to be faced with exactly the same scenario once you've passed the reg over to your OOA buddy?

A diver in panic will go for the closest regulator. If you are doing your job properly, you will be handing the regulator to him in either case. If not, the choice is his not yours. I don't buy the "he'll grab your regulator out of your mouth" explanation. This hasn't been my experience even before octopus seconds were even around. I'm just not giving-up a clear functional regulator in an emergency.

Which makes keeping the other diver out of the panic situation a priority. Best way to do that is to hand off a regulator that you both know is breathing properly. If anything's wrong with the secondary, you're in a much better position to address that problem than he would be ... since you have been without air for less time than he has.

Yes. The most important thing is that the diving team know the other diver's equipment configuration and what he expects.

Well ... yeah ... hopefully everyone learned that in their OW class.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[DCBC]

The only problem with that logic is exactly why you donate your primary because you know it is working and you have it in your hand controlling the situation should you need to buddy breath, if you hand your safe second to an OOG diver and it doesn't function you have the potential of going from a stressed situation to a panic situation and a wrestling match.

I'm aware of that. What type of situation do you think you will be in if you give your primary away and your secondary doesn't work? You have to contend with a diver who has recently gone out of air with the only functional breathing source. As the rescuer, I feel I'm better able to "control the situation" if I have air.

 

[DCBC]

A calm diver can control a CESA on that breath of air much easier than a panicked diver who feels like they're about to breathe water.

I think that you may have some difficulty doing a CESA if you are tethered to a diver who's comfortably breathing on your octopus.

 

[DCBC]

Due diligence ... part of any pre-dive equipment check is making sure that both of your second stages are functioning.

Of course; that goes without saying. Because it's functioning 30 mins ago doesn't mean it will function when it's required. If you're confident that the secondary will work (and it should), what's the problem with giving him the secondary?

Furthermore, if your backup reg fails, most are designed to fail in an open ... not closed ... position. So failure will mean it's free-flowing ... you'll know about it long before you have to hand it off.

Bob, I hope you're not suggesting that a second stage can't fail closed. The diaphram could become dislodged for example.

And what makes buddy breathing any less likely that you're going to be faced with exactly the same scenario once you've passed the reg over to your OOA buddy?

I haven't known all the divers that I've given air to. Who says that the diver will not be a PADI OW Diver, who has no idea what buddy breathing is?

Which makes keeping the other diver out of the panic situation a priority. Best way to do that is to hand off a regulator that you both know is breathing properly. If anything's wrong with the secondary, you're in a much better position to address that problem than he would be ... since you have been without air for less time than he has.

I have to disagree. If he doesn't know how to buddy breath, or is on the verge of panic, you both may die if you have a disfunctional regulator. I believe in protecting the rescuer. Why not just give him a SPARE AIR!

Well ... yeah ... hopefully everyone learned that in their OW class.

That's my point; all divers are not taught the same way. It can't be left to their OW class; divers have to go over emergency proceedures before the dive. They have to have "the talk" and check the configuration of every Buddy (of whick I know you're aware).