Ron Lee's Personal Rules for Diving in Cozumel

[ggunn]

This may be an acceptable explanation for your crazy rules if it was 1960.

There are many,many women out there that because of their superior rescue skills,buoyancy,and air consumption are more than capable of one day saving or assisting you. Don't burn anymore bridges..... or crosses.

Um, that last bit is a tad extreme IMO.

 

[briankinley2004]

Chivalry is not dead, at least not in the South.

 

[mstevens]

Chivalry is not dead, at least not in the South.

I think you're assuming that "chivalry" means something other than what it actually means.

 

[cbm32]

Much Ado About Nothing

 

[TSandM]

Why does it offend people so much that someone would be looking out for you? I don't mind. My all-time favorite dive buddy terms himself a chauvinist -- I suspect if we ever got into his actual opinions about what women are and what they should do, we'd end up in an argument. He has never, ever suggested I'm incapable of doing any dive we have planned together (in fact, on occasion, he has egged me on when I'm being cautious) but I know for darned sure he watches to make sure I don't fall on steep slopes, and he'll step in and offer to manage equipment if I look like I'm not doing well. My guess is the same attitude extends underwater, which means an attentive buddy. As long as he doesn't step on my toes about what I would like the two of us to do, does it matter? If anything, it makes my dive more pleasant and arguably safer.

If somebody decided to make a practice of watching out for divers in blue wetsuits, would there be this much fuss? "Watching out for" doesn't translate into "looking down upon" or "preventing from doing", at least not in my book.

 

[tedgarner]

 

[fishi]

I will ask you why you assume that I meant that women are more vulnerable as divers? If that comment is based upon a sexist/feminist/liberal mindset, then I will assert that my upbringing and philosophy is far better for women than yours.

I also never stated that I would leave a buddy. Let it suffice that it is not an issue and if it were, would be handled appropriately.

I will also assert that had one or two guys with my same attitude towards women (which is at its core...respectful and protective), then the woman who was lost last March on a cruise ship dive would probably be alive today. By the same token, the woman who was lost last Monday would almost surely be alive.

Now if this is "stepping in it" that is not how I see it.

The comment about divers becoming self-reliant is correct. You will see that espoused by me in another post here. Reality is that it may never happen so if more experienced divers take a little bit of time and monitor those with less experience, we should reduce fatalities on Cozumel.

Take the "statistics" that the last two fatalities that I know of were female however you wish.

Before you go out and buy a cape and a big red S for your wetsuit consider that 99% of the women you will be monitoring are competent divers and will never have a accident or need assistance.

 

[kmurray719]

Why does it offend people so much that someone would be looking out for you? I don't mind. My all-time favorite dive buddy terms himself a chauvinist -- I suspect if we ever got into his actual opinions about what women are and what they should do, we'd end up in an argument. He has never, ever suggested I'm incapable of doing any dive we have planned together (in fact, on occasion, he has egged me on when I'm being cautious) but I know for darned sure he watches to make sure I don't fall on steep slopes, and he'll step in and offer to manage equipment if I look like I'm not doing well. My guess is the same attitude extends underwater, which means an attentive buddy. As long as he doesn't step on my toes about what I would like the two of us to do, does it matter? If anything, it makes my dive more pleasant and arguably safer.

If somebody decided to make a practice of watching out for divers in blue wetsuits, would there be this much fuss? "Watching out for" doesn't translate into "looking down upon" or "preventing from doing", at least not in my book.

I expect my buddy to watch over me, and I do the same for them, but the implication that simply by virtue of being a woman I NEED any more watching over than someone else implies to me that one assumes women are less capable divers than men. I don't mind anyone genuinely offering to assist when I need it, and I won't turn down help just to prove that I'm capable, I think helping each other is an important part of the diving community, but I don't need anyone deciding that they're going to oversee me and my diving based on my anatomy. Or at all.

I personally have found that "puffy chested" men who brag about their accomplishments and insist they know everything there is to know about diving are more dangerous in the water than anyone on Ron's list and bear more watching/monitoring. And I'm not putting Ron in that category, just pointing out that it's not necessarily new divers (or women!) who are the ones who always "need" watching.

 

[uncfnp]

Why does it offend people so much that someone would be looking out for you? I don't mind. My all-time favorite dive buddy terms himself a chauvinist -- I suspect if we ever got into his actual opinions about what women are and what they should do, we'd end up in an argument. He has never, ever suggested I'm incapable of doing any dive we have planned together (in fact, on occasion, he has egged me on when I'm being cautious) but I know for darned sure he watches to make sure I don't fall on steep slopes, and he'll step in and offer to manage equipment if I look like I'm not doing well. My guess is the same attitude extends underwater, which means an attentive buddy. As long as he doesn't step on my toes about what I would like the two of us to do, does it matter? If anything, it makes my dive more pleasant and arguably safer.

If somebody decided to make a practice of watching out for divers in blue wetsuits, would there be this much fuss? "Watching out for" doesn't translate into "looking down upon" or "preventing from doing", at least not in my book.

This is much ado about nothing but you asked a good question so I will give you my take on this.

Most of the posts have been by and large good natured teasing, at least on my part until that last post by Ron Lee which i feel showed he truly thinks women as a generality are inferior divers and he personally will save us from ourselves.

i appreciate another diver assisting me as I well help another diver, male are female, if I see they need assistance carrying, retrieving something across the boat, etc. I appreciate helpful input if they see me needing it or making a mistake." I would not like someone just jumping in because they just assumed I need help because of my dive status or my gender.

 

[vladimir]

Where did that happen? I'm curious about the details.

The shark incident - was that Gilliam?

Yes, that was Bret Gilliam. His chilling first-hand account, and a good one by Thalassamania, too, is in this thread:

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/marine-life-ecosystems/27499-shark-attack-stories.html

I have actually saved a drowning woman's life during a dive. She was gorgeous, 19, and gave me a nice kiss and a hug when she saw me later that night, and said, "You saved my life." I swear. Best day of my life, so my memory is flawless on this one.

On average, however, based on gas supply alone—and not even considering macho attitude—I would guess that among recreational divers the men are in more jeopardy than the women.