Rolling Eyes at LDS

[*dave*]

Wheres is this thread.. I couldn't find it. I find it hard to believe that 70 to 80 percent of diver mount their ponys on their tank. If I'm wrong, I'm sorry.

I roll my eyes at the thought of someone basing a decision on what 70%-80% of SB members thought.

 

[Sas]

Some of the things I have found stupid at my LDS (luckily I have a number of other shops I can use now):

-Only club members can rent any equipment. If you want to go along to any club events you have to join first. Who joins a club without checking it out??? (Other than OW students who get a free membership at first)

-On this note I invited a friend along to a night dive with the club. He wanted to check out the club before joining. I was told that he could not come unless he joined the club for liability reasons. Fair enough. I told them I would bring him along but not dive with the DM or instructor. Again I was told this would violate their insurance. I still to this day have no explanation for them as to why it violates their insurance when I show up at a public dive site with a non-club member buddy and dive seperately from their group... I have dived with many other clubs and no one has insisted I join for legal reasons.

-I didn't like their brand of drysuit so I bought one at another store. The LDS owner heard about this and assumed I paid the same price as my buddy (my buddy got the better version $700 more). This LDS owner emailed me to say the other store had ripped me off and he could have done it $500 cheaper for me. This still worked out to be $200 more than what I paid for it

-The owner would make fun of anyone who bought online products and told me once that he owes no loyalty to anyone who doesn't show him loyalty. I remember a monthly newsletter where there was a big article about the perils of online shopping.

-This whole saga where they tried to charge me at least $95 for a five minute check on my regs. http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/basic-scuba-discussions/243044-flooded-first-stage-sigh.html. Later on he did the same thing to someone I know and even after it was checked by another dive shop, he convinced this person to do a full service. I have done over 150 dives at least on my regs since then, with no troubles. They are just about to get their first service actually. When I made a complaint to the store about this they contacted a buddy and told him they offered me a refund if there ended up being nothing wrong with my regs. The owner has also told a number of other people that I was unreasonable as they offered me a refund of my $95... They never did this and even if they had, why would they ask me to pay $95, check the regs, then refund it if my regs are ok? It makes no sense. You would expect them to check the regs, then charge me if something is wrong. I had been a loyal customer prior and if they were worried about securing payment, they could have easily held my regs there until I paid.

I actually was told by an employee of the store a while later that the $95 was to pay for a high pressure seat replacement as it was "Australian Standards" to have this replaced if the first stage was opened in any way. I went and obtained copies of the Australian standards and there is no standard for HP seat replacement.

-Their prices are double what I can get products for online. For example Aladin Tec2g $975 there, I got it for $500 at another Australian store (with the warranty). I have many more examples of this. It is not so bad if they charge a high price (I know many LDSs are constrained by minimum RRP - although this is illegal in Australia manufacturers get away with it) but they would bag out people who went online or to other stores for cheaper deals...

-When I originally started diving I asked about getting a BP/W. I was told by an employee of the store that BP/Ws are only for technical divers and they pushed me towards a BI BC. It sits in the cupboard now, whilst I do non-technical dives with my BP/W... When I expressed an interest in getting a BP/W later on (after being loaned one by a friend for a dive) they were VERY keen then to sell me one. There are other examples with their equipment advice too...

-I bought a second hand Smartcom through them. I was told that I would get free batteries for life as long as I took it into an authorised dealer (I confirmed this on a number of occasions with the store). Well I had left the club by the time it ran out of batteries and took it to another place. I was told by the other shop that as I am not the original owner it would be a few hundred for a a battery change. I rung Scubapro and they confirmed this. Luckily I was able to find out the original owner and I got it changed for free in the end. But still, this could have cost me a few hundred.

-On two occassions I was told by one of the staff there that another store had bad air. I went to the other store and asked to check their air quality reports before I got fills from there again. The store never had air quality problems according to their reports and I have never heard from anyone else that this shop had air quality problems.

Anyway, I just cannot believe that a business would think they could pull such things and retain my business. I gave them the benefit of the doubt a number of times and stuck around a bit longer than I should have as I found the other divers in the club great, but as soon as I managed to get a full refund for the trip I booked with them, I was out of there...

 

[DIVERHERB]

I wouldn't give out nitrox fills on behalf of somebody else either. I need to see their card and have them analyse and sign for the tank. I'm a PADI instructor and standards require that if I am to rent out a nitrox tank it must be personally analysed by the diver who will use it. I'm also qualified to mix nitrox and trimix for tec divers and given the added risks involved in that I'm not going to let anybody walk out of my shop with a tank that hasn't been properly tested and signed for by the intended recipient. That's quite an easy way to kill people.

If a person decides to get two nitrox tanks and then gives one to their buddy without proper analysis or certification there is nothing I can do about that - however I'm not going to deliberatley put myself in a position of legal liability just because somebody starts rolling their eyes at me!

Why might dive shops roll their eyes about gear bought on the internet? Well - it's a bit like buying a car - has it got a service history? What do we know about this stuff? Does it work - has it got problems we don't know about?

Okay, some dive operators may be a tad snootier than others, but please understand that when it comes to issues like this, we have to place every precaution on what use that equipment or tank might be put to once it leaves the dive centre.

For the poster who had eyes rolled at him because they wanted to buy a bp/wing - I'd ask the same question - why so you want this? Is it cos a guy on the internet said it was the way to go or do you really undertand the pros and cons of owning that equipment. It's not difficult to establish the reasoning behind a customer's request and I see it as our responsibility to ensure the customer is getting what is right for them.

dive shops differ in their attitude and policy, and unfortunately customers are not always truthful. We have businesses and livelihoods to maintain and have to be cautious.

Hope evenybody understands those issues from the other side of the counter!

Happy eye rolling,

C.

This argument does not wash. So you buy a new car and take it to another dealership and he refuses to do warranty work? No, if it is still under warranty the dealer performs the service needed under the terms of the warranty contract. Really what it all amounts to is the LDS is upset you did not spend the money in there shop and it is now "pay back time"

 

[Web Monkey]

I recently attempted to dump my BCD and Twin Jets at the LDS I instruct for. The mgr starts grilling me on why I want to dump them.
"Because I haven't dived either in over three years" He rolls his eyes and makes a comment to the effect of "No wonder none of your students buy gear from us.... Our gear isn't good enough for you."

This causes me to roll my eyes, because he's never sat in on one of my classes. "The gear I dive works for all the types of diving I do now and will do in the future. Why would I keep a set of gear that would only work in about half the diving I do? How many of my students have come in asking for BP/W or Jets?"

He rolls his eyes, I roll my eyes and shake my head. Sometimes, they just don't get it.

Students are more likely to buy what the instructor is using. If you care to maintain a good relationship with this particular shop (I have no idea if you do), it would be in your best interest to teach using stuff they sell.

If you don't care, then it doesn't matter. In either case, no "eye rolling" is necessary.

Terry

 

[offthewall1]

Wheres is this thread.. I couldn't find it. I find it hard to believe that 70 to 80 percent of diver mount their ponys on their tank. If I'm wrong, I'm sorry.

Here is the thread: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/basic-scuba-discussions/285805-pony-bottle-off.html

Let me clarify one thing... in my haste to keep my posting as brief as possible I don't think the point I was making was entirely clear. 70-80% of people Pressurize their system then turn it back off. This is done to ensure the air will still be in the tank when they go to use it. Leaving the pony turned on is dangerous... and more than one diver has gone to use their pony only to find out it was empty due to a slow and undetected leak (limited free flow.)

As far as how many actually tank mount - vs. sling... I didn't do the math on... but typically more recreational divers tank mount and more technical divers sling. Since the number of recreational divers is far more than technical divers, I think (my opinion) that there would be slightly more being tank mounted than slung. Maybe someone can go to the thread and do the math... I didn't actually look for that.

The primary point he (the customer) had disagreed with was turning the tank off. Hope that makes sense... Cheers... and dive the way you want to!

 

[offthewall1]

Students are more likely to buy what the instructor is using. If you care to maintain a good relationship with this particular shop (I have no idea if you do), it would be in your best interest to teach using stuff they sell.

If you don't care, then it doesn't matter. In either case, no "eye rolling" is necessary.

Terry

As a store owner, I totally disagree. I do not require my Instructors to teach in (wear) what my store sells. That is ludicris. I came up as an Instructor in stores that made me buy and wear inferior gear because it was what they sold... all the while the store owners snuck out the back door wearing the good stuff.

When I opened my doors one of the things I wanted to dispel was the myth that students wanted what the Instructors wore. Given that my sales are growing faster than any of the stores in my area with that requirement, I'd say intellectual consumers are figuring it out.

If you walk into a store that only sells Scubapro or only sells Apeks/Aqualung... you know you're being coerced into buying the one and only thing the store sells. You're further confounded when you see every "follower" in the store looking like poster children for that particular brand. Todays consumers are smarter.

We sell 8 different brands of gear... and still I don't require my Instructors to wear anything we sell. Why? Because we teach and believe in diving what you find most comfortable... what has the bells and whistles you want etc... We encourage customers who ask about brands we don't sell to go and check out other brands and even tell them which stores in our area sell it.

Amazingly... most of them come back and buy from us. Nevemind that we have the best pricing... they know they weren't bamboozled into buying from us. They weren't given a dog and pony show by our Instructors... and they were given all the information they could have ever wanted to make an informed decision.

There are still those who think as you do... but they are dinosaurs in a changing industry...

 

[AquaExplorer]

I roll my eyes at the thought of someone basing a decision on what 70%-80% of SB members thought.

Really? So getting to know people on the board, seeing dive histories and experiences, and getting consensus on what works based on those experiences....none of that is supposed to matter on the board?

Why have the board then if no one takes other peoples advice/opinion?

 

[Web Monkey]

Really? So getting to know people on the board, seeing dive histories and experiences, and getting consensus on what works based on those experiences....none of that is supposed to matter on the board?

Not as much as you think.

SB users are the same people you would meet in any dive shop. Some are very knowledgeable and some are wing-nuts, and some are in-between.

"70% of SB pony users, using a tank mount" could mean nothing more than shops like to sell tank mounts. If you bought a tank mount, and someone asked, of course you would say you liked it. Assuming it didn't fall off, why wouldn't you?

It's like the old Henny Youngman joke:

Q: How's your wife?
A: Compared to what?

Terry

 

[Zieg]

Here is one that always makes me roll my eyes. I work in a LDS part-time and have come to regard EBAY as slightly pure evil. Once or twice a week it never fails. Somebody comes in with a "super-deal" they just got from EBAY. I'ts almost always ancient and usually dry-rotted as well. Then here is the eye rolling part. They get all uptight when they hear, that by the time you take the time to clean it and service it ( assumming the parts are even available) they could have bought a new and better regulator from you. Hey if it's to good to be true it probably is !!!!!
As far as the nitorx debate. We have whoever is picking up said tanks analyze them and then sign our logbook. If they were getting more than 6 tanks we would require some other divers to come and pick up their own tanks.

So, when I come in to pick up say eight of my tanks, eight because I hate coming to the shop just to get one or two tanks filled, I would have to have someone else sign for two of my tanks? Or is it that I can sign for my tanks but someone else has to pick them up?

How is buying from Ebay evil? Walmart maybe, but Ebay? A used regulator is a used regulator, whether you buy it from ebay, your best friend, or the garage sale down the street. Now I will give you that some used regulators are junk, but then again, some new regulators are junk also and many inexperienced new divers do not know a good used regualtor from a piece of junk, but that is where you should advise them as to good buys in the used market.

 

[Zieg]

There was a shop where they would not let me out the door until I rolled the tank on the floor to make sure the nitrox fill was throughly mixed.