Rodale's reg results are in...

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Genesis once bubbled...
The machine results I would tend to trust, but they did not actually report any of the results, rather, they reduced them in such a way that made the raw scores impossible to know, and further, did not report what they tuned to!

You misunderstood the basis of my objection, which has been there since the beginning.

Sorry if I misunderstood. I thought you approved of the machine testing as unbiased.

What's the objection of not knowing how the regs were tuned? Is it because they don't say state that they were/were not tuned to manufacturer's specs?

Thanks

Marc
 
is that manufacturers don't all specify the same thing, and minor differences can make for full-point reported differences due to the way this was "scored".

For example, if one manufacturer specifies cracking pressure as 1/2" of water, and another specifies it as 1.5" of water, then tuning "to spec" could lead to different results on the machine "work of breathing" tests for the two regs, and the difference would be entirely due to the tuning!

You simply must either (1) test out of the box, with no tuning at all, or (2) tune all to an identical standard.

Otherwise the test is invalid on its face.
 
The regs come tuned out of the box from the factory.
 
especially since they solicited regs from the makers and were sent them - were they given "specials"?
 
Genesis once bubbled...
For example, if one manufacturer specifies cracking pressure as 1/2" of water, and another specifies it as 1.5" of water, then tuning "to spec" could lead to different results on the machine "work of breathing" tests for the two regs, and the difference would be entirely due to the tuning!

You simply must either (1) test out of the box, with no tuning at all, or (2) tune all to an identical standard.

Otherwise the test is invalid on its face.

OK - but if the manufacturer says to tune thier reg to certain spec, why wouldn't you want to follow their recommendation? Don't they know best how their own regs should be tuned for peak performance?

This is assuming that the tuning recommendation is in the standard documentation that is distributed with all retail sales.

Marc
 
peak performance.

You can't, can you? Well, neither can I, because standing alone it doesn't mean anything.

Is work-of-breathing least if I set the reg just a minute fraction of an inch of water below freeflow? Sure. In fact, perhaps even a bit of leakage is better from that perspective......

But is that "peak performance"? Maybe according to a machine, but is it according to a human?

Maybe not!

When you don't report both the calibration standards and raw work-of-breathing results, you simply can't know if the results are a real comparison of the regulators or if what you were testing was the specifications that they were tuned to!

If the latter, you tested NOTHING!

Without the specs and raw results, there is simply no way to know.
 
I don't know if Rodale's test is biased or not but I personaly think they are worthy enough as a reference, if you need any. I think it is safe enough to use their review as a basis to buy bang-for-the buck regs or choose top regs.

Where else can you get someone to test so many regulators at one go. As for the IN-WATER evaluation, some testing results might not seems accurate to us the users/owners because probably preference might differ between individuals. For example comfort. Some people like the US Diver type of Comfo mouth piece, that unique design. Me, I throw that away on my Micra 2nd stage and I use Scubapro red one. Some people like that 'Comfo" mouth piece..... and etc etc. For me smallest & lightest 2nd stage is priority, again it differ from people to people.

As for Breathing Simulator Test, I have faith in Rodale. This kind of test is not 0-60 MPH acceleration test of Car & Driver that we can prove easily if we own the cars. How many of us can have access to a breathing simulator ? I have faith in Rodale because it seems that a few units I have tried seems to get "suitable" result as per their test chart.

Also to note that if you pick, say top 7 regs in breathing test and put it in ur mouth to test but the dives are 7 different dives, I don't think u can tell the difference. All the regs with scores of 19 and 20 can be considered ultra high performance reg and is so easy to breath at designed depth. If I blind fold a guy and ask him to breath these regs at depth , one by one a minute each, I am sure he can't tell which is which even if he own one with a 20 score. At the current stage of reg technology, even if Rodale test is "suspicious" as what a few may think, I personaly think it is safe to say they are worth as a reference. I am sure even if someone mentioned Rodale as being biased, Rodale will not rate Bronze as Gold or vice versa. 99.95% gold is 99.99%...maybe.

I recalled when I first bought my very own reg long time ago. Dacor Extreme was Dacor's best. US Diver best was the Micra. Scubapro best was D400. Other brands not available in my country. I got all except Dacor. The Dacor ad was so convincing, I finaly bought the Extreme. I used it and at 70 feet and deeper the truth revealed itselft...it is a piece of regret if compared to the other two. The 2nd stage construction was another disaster. Anyway, later I read the Rodale reg test and there it was Extreme on the lousy scale, Rodale could not be more honest than that. YEP, it was a long time ago, things may change ;) ;).

Well it might be just me....
 
But to me the RSD test looks to be very in-depth.

Does it surprise anybody to learn tha some time good, reliable, tested products perform better all-around than new, High Tech top of the line, most expensive products?

It is a great turn off to learn that you just spent 1,657,936.32$ on a reg that does not perform much better (especially where you use it, somewhere around 60fsw) than a 350$ (or less) reg.

I would be disappointed too.

As long as you enjoy diving...

Ari ;)
 
scubafanatic was right....

Did some one accidentally (on purpose) forget the workhorse of several members of the Navy & techies all over the word????

POSEIDON......... What are the mnfgrs afraid of. Is Rodale's biased?????
YA THINK????
They've been called on it on more than one occasion.
Am I mad? No. What's the big deal, I know how they perform & so does the others that puts their lives in their Poseidons.

Ok......no more ranting.
 
Poseidon?? Come on guys ...there is only one reulator worth buying and it comes from Sveden.....I have been using Poseidons for 12 years and ya know something, the deeper you go the better they breath. I am not here trying to get in a P!$$!ng match with anyone but It sure is fun voicing my opinion. Seriously, I like Poseidon because they are tough and reliable and they breathe really well. I have had the same Odins now for 12 years and they still work great. The only gripe I have is finding someone competent to perform maintence on them. ...And if your out there Crispy...you owe me $100.00 because they are Swedish not Swiss...

:mgun:
 

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