Rodale's reg results are in...

[MichaelG]

I don't know what to make of this test. The Apeks ATX200 got a pretty low rating compared to the others. I've used a couple of the other and find the ATX200 to be better for me personaly.

I would have expected deeper FSW tests to perform better. I was always under the impression that the Apeks 1st stages are designed to overbalance the deeper you go.

--MichaelG

 

[ElectricZombie]

The tests are not biased. I was once able to meet a guy who was familiar with the machine Roadales uses, and how they conducted the testing. This guy had been doing this kind of stuff for ages, and assured me that the testing was accurate. He had nothing to gain either way. If Roadales was biased, I think we'd see obvious signs.



I think the best thing to come out of this testing is that it shows that you do not have to spend a fortune to own a great reg. A lot of people think that the higher the price, the better the reg. This is not always true. For about $400.00 or a little less, you can have a reg that performs almost as well as some of the high priced models.

 

[Rick Murchison]

yknot once bubbled...
Is anyone here going to replace their current reg with one that received a better score? I recently bought a new Zeagle 50D and with my very limited experience with it so far can only say it is far superior to what is available with rental gear. This model didn't score as well as some but so far appears to be all I'll ever need. Why not add another category: How cool your regulator looks. This will provide some people one more useless method by which to feel good about their $800 reg. This whole subject is less about performance than bragging rights anyway.

Bingo!
Rick

 

[Scuba446]

I agree! Seems as though the sport of scuba isn't any more exempt from the marketing, sales hype, ads and status than any other products we see out there today! I can't really see where a titanium reg is really that necessary, or, superior to a $350 reg. OK, so its lighter! Whoppie!

 

[dgangi]

Well, keep in mind that some of the tests and resulting scores on these regulators are *far* beyond the limits of what most "recreational" divers should see. I personally do not dive below 130 feet, nor should any other recreational diver, so the first two columns really apply to the "average joe diver" like myself.

And if you look at just the first 2 columns of the test, there is VERY LITTLE difference between regulators. Dozens of regulators scored a 5 on the first test...and dozens scored a 4 or better with a higher rate of breathing on the second test. Even the "cheapo" regulators did outstanding, so there is definitely no truth to the adage that you get what you pay for.

The final column is averaged over 4 scores, 2 of which are at depths I will never see. Yes, I'd prefer to buy a regulator that overperforms what I intend to use it for, but truth be told, just about every regulator in the test came in with good scores.

But just remember, these are breathing scores (ease of breathing to be precise). These scores do not take into account ergonomics, fit, and reliability. And depending on your climate, weather-proofing and cold-climate breathability are also key.

This kind of thing reminds me of the government front crash tests. Whenever a car scores well, the manufacturers brag like hell about how "safe" the car is. You'll see things like "5 star front crash rating" in their ads. But that same car might perform like crap in any other type of crash.

So claiming "excellence" because of a good score on only one testing aspect is bad, so buyer beware. Think we'll see Aqualung or any other brands say "5 star breathing rating by Rodale's"?? I already see vendors use their "Best Buy" and "Tester Choice" labels everywhere in their ads!


Thx...Doug

 

[divrnr]

Just watch out for the really cheap crap and all will work to 132fsw. I still believe you should spend some money on quality because it's how many dives you do or lack of that will determine it's lifesaving ability.

 

[Genesis]

Here's an example:

Mfg 1 says "cracking pressure is as low as 0.5" of water".
Mfg 2 says "cracking pressure specified as 1.0-1.5" of water"

Rodale's tunes both regs to "manufacturers specifications" when they get them.

Now they test.

Reg #2 comes in second - still a good score, but not AS good.

Reg #1 gets the "best" score.

Is it best? No. They were set up differently. There is no way to know if you could actually dive Reg #1 that way (or if it would freeflow like a geyser) nor if Reg #2 could be tuned to the other standard and be stable (it might, it might not)

Second example:

Mfg #1's reg has a WOB of 0.99 j/l.
Mfg #2's reg has a WOB of 1.01 j/l.

The cutoff between a score of "4" and "5" is 1.0 j/l.

Reg #1 gets an "excellent."
Reg #2 gets a "good."

Is there any OBJECTIVE difference between them that will matter to an actual user with the reg in their mouth?

No.

This is why (1) hand-tuning to some undisclosed number that may be different for each unit is misleading, and why (2) not disclosing the raw scores for each of the regulators under test is, in my opinion, intentionally misleading.

There were a LOT of "4" and "5" scores on these tests. The patterns in the "4" results suggest that tuning differences may have been entirely responsible for them not being "5"s.

But without RAW numbers, and the tuning specs that EACH regulator was actually tuned to, we simply have no way to know.

This ignores the effect of a manufacturer being able to send a "ringer" to Rodales - if I was a manufacturer, I certainly would if I was asked to supply the regs for testing. Internal air passages would be rounded and hand-polished, everything would be tuned to the 9s, etc - all with the intent of making sure they got the best possible performance - even though there's no way (for cost reasons) I'd do that with production units.

This is why I say the "test" is nothing more than a marketing gimmick. This latest round has done a lot to damage my view of Rodale's - my subscription will not be renewed when it expires.

 

[jeffsterinsf]

They love those speakers that have "perrfect" frequency response and get a 97.5/100 -- but anyone with musical experience gets shivers running up and down their spine when they listen to them, since CR doesn't know from beans about phase response or distortion.

My ATX200 hoses go in the right direction, the mouthpeice feels comfortable in my mouth, I got a great sense of confidence when talking with the folks at AquaLung (who, by the way, didn't have anything bad to say about ScubaPro!), and my stress level is low when I dive. Could I ask for more??

(Oh, yeah, I had a trustworthy LDS put together a "package" that got me what I wanted within $100 of the price of DiveInn and now I have had the reg bench-checked before diving with it and a warranty, even lower stress now...)

Rodale's confirms what most of us believe, most moderate-priced regs from reputable manufaturers decent for recreational diving, most premium-priced regs from the same manufacturers are, well, premium in performance.

Is a Ferrari "better" than a Maserati? Is a 1960's Mini Cooper S "better" than a Ferrari Dino? Would my mom and dad agree, driving to the grocery store in the snow, instead of winding their way down CA1 at the limits of traction of the super-soft-and-sticky tires? Where does my beloved Lotus Elan fall? Especially since the Mazda Miata shamelessly copied it 25 years later? Does that mean that the Legend LX is to be looked down upon because AquaLung bought Apeks and adopted the better ideas to improve their own product?

Shoot -- if I could answer that any of those questions conclusively for every diver and every dive,I'd quit my job and become a fortune teller!

 

[Former FLL Now MSP Diver]

Genesis once bubbled...
I don't know if they're biased or not.

The machine tests I'd tend to trust, for the simple reason that a manufacturer unfairly dissed on an objective measurement could easily go after Rodale's.

Genesis once bubbled...

This is why I say the "test" is nothing more than a marketing gimmick. This latest round has done a lot to damage my view of Rodale's - my subscription will not be renewed when it expires.

That's quite a turnaround in just five days. What changed your mind?

 

[Genesis]

The machine results I would tend to trust, but they did not actually report any of the results, rather, they reduced them in such a way that made the raw scores impossible to know, and further, did not report what they tuned to!

You misunderstood the basis of my objection, which has been there since the beginning.