Rob Davie's accident. (aka. BigJetDiver)

[lamont]

some people with less experience are going to be reading this, our desire to say nothing that could possibly be percieved as "bad" about one of our own isn't going to do anybody any good.

We are never going to know EXACTLY how Rob passed, IMHO a team approach is safer and for my risk/benifit thoughts on diving makes more sense to me but it's natural that others will feel different.

I'd agree. My own personal choices are to not seperate the team and to call the dive together. Its difficult to argue that the outcome in this case would have been any different, though, particularly since we don't know exactly how it occured. That was also the agreed upon protocol, and it was followed.

The whole team diving thing tends to lead directly into religious wars. I hope we can keep this away from there, but I think I've already noticed a few raw nerves in a few posts in this thread.

If this thread is in danger of being "modded" because there may be things said that reflect badly on Robs judgement then it may be better if the whole thread were to disappear and because Rob was ONE OF US we only have the memorial thread.

There is no way to discuss this without considering "Pilot error" along with equipment, medical and enviornmental factors.

Pilot error is definitely something to consider. The condition of the mouthpiece suggests that he may have made a bad call about the condition of the rebreather. At the same time though, I haven't seen anything conclusive to suggest it did more than contribute stress to the dive.

 

[cerich]

Pilot error is definitely something to consider. The condition of the mouthpiece suggests that he may have made a bad call about the condition of the rebreather. At the same time though, I haven't seen anything conclusive to suggest it did more than contribute stress to the dive.

If it wouldn't shut when he went to his bail out the unit will flood and they can get very heavy. That is strait forward.

What effect the mouthpiece had as far as causing him to go to his bail out is impossible to say with the information we have.

 

[H2Andy]

well, some good thoughts here ... personally, i don't want to assign blame to anyone, i want to know what happened at the surface, since that is likely the key

i agee with Charlie99 that the period from rob reaching the surface to his failure
to make it to the boat is critical.

rob had recovered from equipment failure, had switched to an open circuit, and
had gotten his rebreather to the surface.

next thing he would have done is head for the boat.

how far away was the boat? the dive was only 4 minutes old, so they couldn't
have been very far away. the weather wasn't mentioned, so i doubt it was
a factor.

so what happened between rob reaching the surface and him being found?

i don't think we'll ever know. i see two options:

1. his buddy is correct that rob was swimming towards the boat (i.e. he reached
the surface alive); or

2. his buddy is incorrect that rob was swimming towards the boat; it just appeared
that way from 80 feet below, in which case rob was already incapacitated
by the time he reached the surface.

i tend to belive his buddy can tell the difference bewteen a kicking diver and
a diver floating motionless, thus i believe rob reached the surface alive.

so... again ... what happened next?

 

[Darnold9999]

In the past I would have done the same, now I wouldn't (and wouldn't for the last 6 years or so). The only exception would be a 4 man team, if 2 continued as a buddy team and 1 accompanied the "problem" diver back to boat/shore and remained with their buddy.

Did have to think long and hard about this one, i.e is it time to change my thinking - which in itself makes this thread a worthwhile exercise. Ultimately decided not to change, but can see why others would make a different decision.

 

[cerich]

Did have to think long and hard about this one, i.e is it time to change my thinking - which in itself makes this thread a worthwhile exercise. Ultimately decided not to change, but can see why others would make a different decision.

the issues we are discussing are a little like riding a motorbike

some will say "too dangerous" no way no how
others "sure, wear helmet take rider safety course"
still others "I'm moving to Florida so I can ride with no helmet in shorts"

There are good arguments all around which at the end of the day rest on the individuals choice and the freedom to exercise that choice.

 

[mike_s]

this article says he ditched his weight.
http://www.divernet.com/news/stories/020506davie.shtml

 

[riguerin]

this article says he ditched his weight.
http://www.divernet.com/news/stories/020506davie.shtml

Specifically, it says ""We know he released his weightbelt and ascended very rapidly." This is consistent with the very first post on rebeather world which included a note from Rob's wife.

 

[lamont]

If it wouldn't shut when he went to his bail out the unit will flood and they can get very heavy. That is strait forward.

It doesn't seem like that's directly causal, though, because he was found on the surface and his bailout still had gas. Even if that contributed to the accident, it seems like he managed to get it under control. There's still something missing here.

 

[Charlie99]

If someone is in control, experienced and waves me on to surface by themselves then, barring some other factor ,that is exactly what I do - subject to making sure I visually ensure that they get to the surface OK.

If they are not experienced, or in distress or anything doesn't feel right then I escort them to the boat and call the dive.

The problem is determining when there is some other factor, or determining that they are in distress.

There is also the problem of forcing oneself to declare an emergency in an ambiguous situation --- kind of like someone who is choking on something heading off to a restaurant bathroom by themselves rather than declaring an emergency. Whether or not the solo ascent had any effect on this incident other than making the root problem a mystery, it does serve as a reminder to try and reign in my bad tendency to be reluctant to declare a problem, due to either embarassment or reluctance to ruin another diver's dive.

It is also a reminder that, if one does agree to solo ascents, to also agree upon a clear signal that cancels that agreement and says "I want you to go up with me".

Charlie Allen

p.s. As noted above by Catherine, it appears that Rob and the buddy did as they had mutally agreed, and this is neither intended to blame either, nor to get into criticism or debate about buddy protocols.

 

[DandyDon]

My questions about the buddy were ONLY to see how close he was in viewing Robs final time at the surface - in pursuit, or still at 80 ft. I suppose he may well have stayed down, which would make details from his observances doubtful.