Rob Davie's accident. (aka. BigJetDiver)

[mdb]

And from what I've been able to glean of his character from reading his posts on this board, he would have approved of this thread.

I think he would be/is laughing heartily.

 

[lamont]

H2Andy: Does all this speculation really make any difference or serve any real purpose? He may have done this or maybe did that.

analytical people tend to have analytical coping mechanisms. it serves a purpose for me.

 

[caveseeker7]

It seems pretty clear to me that with air left in the bailout bottle that he didn't just drown because of a flooded unit pulling him under (although i hadn't recognized that as a risk with rebreather divers -- note to self made about closing the mouthpiece in a rescue situation).

There was a rebreather fatality near Hemmoor in Germany recently where a diver ran out of gas, made an emergency ascent, and decided to ditch his rebreather. Unfortunately he forgot to remove the torch mounted to his forearm. The cable connected him to the rebreather, he was pulled down and died.

... only if there's a link between CO2 and MI can we really say that the unit started the cascade in that case

In a post at Rebreather World Iain Middlebrook makes a very good case linking CO2 to heart attacks. "Cascade" is a good term, as usually there are multiple failures, may they be hardware, software or user, that start adding up for accidents to have a fatal turnout.

Rob's age, his surgery last year and the fact that it sidelined him for quite a while from flying and diving, the stress of travelling, the problems with the DSV, the possibility of hypercapnia, the stress of bailing out, the stress of a surface swim in full gear. Personally I believe they all were contributing factors to the accident and outcome.

Specifically, it says ""We know he released his weightbelt and ascended very rapidly." This is consistent with the very first post on rebeather world which included a note from Rob's wife.

It would be as it quotes his wife's post on Rebreather World.

My questions about the buddy were ONLY to see how close he was in viewing Robs final time at the surface - in pursuit, or still at 80 ft. I suppose he may well have stayed down, which would make details from his observances doubtful.

They did a buddy check at about 70 ft, then continued the descent. The buddy lead the way, when he turned next he realized Rob had bailed off his rebreather and turned his dive. He halted his descent, saw Rob reach the surface and swim on his back towards the boat which was a short distance away. Rob seemed in control, not distress or danger.

 

[Cave Diver]

I believe that his buddy stayed at 80ft and continued his own dive because he believed Rob to be OK. As caveseeker7 just explained they would (al)most certainly have had an emergency protocol worked out in advance. His buddy was a personal friend AND one of Rob's own students. It would stand to reason that he would act exactly as he had been taught by Rob.

I've watched this thread, but refrained from posting up until this point.

I think this analysis is spot on.

I wasn't there when Rob died, so there is no way I can say with absolute certainty what happened. But there are a few things that I can say. Most of it is a matter of public record, some of it is my personal opinion. Take it for whatever you feel it's worth.

Rob's buddy on this trip is one of my former instructors. Not only was he my instructor, he also became a very good friend and trusted dive buddy.

I've dove with him numerous times on many trips and under countless conditions. There is a good possibility that I've been his buddy on more dives than anyone else he dives with.

Having said that, I can tell you from first hand experience that he is an accomplished diver and an attentive buddy. If he says that he watched Rob make it to the surface and head towards the boat, there is no doubt in my mind that's what happpened.

He would, in my experience, never allow someone to ascend alone if he felt they were in trouble or needed help to make it to the surface.

I can also tell you that Rob was not only the instructor who taught him R/B diving, but they also became good friends and stayed in touch. In fact, I was introduced to Rob by him at DEMA several years ago.

My friend has not had much to say about the incident and I respect that. I can not imagine how traumatic an experience that was and I know it hasn't been easy on him. They were more than dive buddies, more than instructor/student. They were friends.

Personally, I don't know what happened that caused Rob's death. But I do feel comfortable that if his buddy said he made it to the surface and was swimming towards the boat, that's what happened.

 

[ItsBruce]

to me it does. it helps me come to terms with what might have happened to rob.

i think it's human nature to want to know how someone one cares for passed away.
/QUOTE]

I'll finally pipe in: Andy has said it all. ... That is really we discuss and even sometimes speculate. It helps us come to grips. Sometimes it prevents other incidents. Sometimes we even get it right.

 

[Cacia]

(I'm a little rusty on this, but... you would think that a lethal PE would have presented prior to his dive though; knowing Rob, you would think he would have scrubbed the dive with any of the symptoms of a PE, however diffuse they may be. It is, however, a very plausible argument, especially given the circumstances...

no, there would be no symptoms until it hit the pulmonary tree circulation. onset is sudden. The deep pelvic veins, if I remember correctly can form clots when sitting for extended periods, coupled with dehydration, etc. and once it breaks loose, "hits" the pulmonary tree causing sudden death. Actually fairly common. There used to be this saying in medicine "when you hear hoofbeats, look for horses, not zebras". Meaning the common things should be considered first.

For me, it drives home the importance of hydration, etc. All the things we can do to prevent deep vein thrombosis.

and, a buddy two feet away IF this were the problem would not have made a bit of difference.

 

[Kim]

no, there would be no symptoms until it hit the pulmonary tree circulation.

I have a friend who made a flight from India back to Germany. His girl friend picked him up and on the way home he had a massive heart attack sitting next to her in the car. No warning at all. He survived....just - but then he was in a good hospital within minutes. Obviously no-one can be sure but this IS a possible that fits all the known facts. If it makes us more aware of the importance of exercise during long flights to those exotic dive destinations that can only be a good thing.

 

[MikeFerrara]

H2Andy: Does all this speculation really make any difference or serve any real purpose? He may have done this or maybe did that.

I think that it does. For every one of us, the methods and ptotocols that we employ may one day have direct bearing on our survival. We can't bring back those who are gone but we can each re-evaluate our own practices based on an even like this.

Facts are; a good man died doing something he loved. Lots of folks, obviously, loved him. Not a bad way to go.

I don't see the facts that way. A good man died...I agree with that. He was certainly doing something he loved when the problems began. Once the trouble started though, I doubt that he was loving what he was doing.

 

[Cacia]

When I mentioned the reporter that died suddenly from a Pulmonary Embolus, in Iraq, I had the name wrong....it was David Bloom. He was sitting/riding in a hum-V, long periods, heat, dehydrated, etc.

I might mention that a PE from being dehydrated and having deep vein blood clots form and then get "thrown" to the pulmonary circulation, would present very similiar to a AGE, but have a different orgin. (clot VS air). That distinction could easily be unclear. I think it's useful, even if not his scenario, just because statistically it is very prevalent.

I guess I don't think speculation is disrespectful, quite the opposite. If this helps me remember forcing water on my long international flights, inconveniencing the snoozing seatmate, and the snarling flight attendants with the carts, to walk around, etc, then that's a good thing.

 

[plankspanker]

Once the trouble started though, I doubt that he was loving what he was doing.

Very well said, though probably not a popular way of looking at it.