"Riding your Computer Up" vs. "Lite Deco"

[KenGordon]

ADP (A for accelerated) is about using rich mixes to reduce deco time. It is fairly conservative and about doing the same dives but with shorter deco. In teaches tables which are like 21 backgas, 50 deco gas for 21/27/32 and 50 and 80. It has a bit of kit configuration, redundancy, self reliance, physiology and lots of planning. But really it is Sports Diver deco plus a bit, in particular bubble checks and gas switching. A lot of the usual stuff in a bit more detail, especially oxygen exposure. You get no extra depth having done this course (although in combination with the twinset course an SD gets 40m).

Sport Diver includes Nitrox, so analysis, O2 risks are already covered.

ADP is not 'technical' according to BSAC.

Then there is Sports Mixed Gas which goes on from ADP to add helium, again covers all the usual stuff for a single deco gas helium dive to a max of 50m. It adds stress and management and is more focused on twinsets etc (although there is a CCR version) whereas with ADP if you REALLY wanted to you could dive a single, a pony and a cylinder of something rich to speed up the deco. There are 60m (two deco gases, mention of counter diffusion) and 80m (maybe 100) after that. Somewhere trapezes start to turn up, systems for drifting deco and so forth.

The 50 and 60m courses are often taught together. ADP (2 long days) or an equivalent is a prerequisite.

The requirement for ADP is only AOW (and reasonable ability to hold a stop) this can lead to some shell shocked students when it comes to the tables and planning but they get there in the end.

BSAC tries to make learning 'progressive'. This is code for all the courses covering the same ground as the previous one in review at least and then adding detail or skills as required. It means that you end up doing lots of the same skills again, but deeper or in more complicated situations.

Sports Mixed Gas sort of like TDI AN/DP Helitrox. However the typical student will already have covered decompression diving in Sports Diver and ADP and have done a good number of decompression dives already.

 

[dmaziuk]

It is way past time for the Luddite US agencies to catch up with BSAC...

PADI OW is around $350 here. I haven't done AOW, the advertised costs here are $250-300 but I'm not sure where/if PADI's $164 e-learning price fits in there. So you're looking at $600 for the level 1 cert -- as opposed to $350. I'm sure that will attract many more customers.

 

[scubadada]

Hi DD,

The current Sports Diver syllabus requires for SO3 the instructor to teach diving with planned deco stops. Last Saturday I took a student through the gas planning requirements for a 38m dive of 28 min bottom time. We then did the runtime, including stops, at a much shallower depth. What I was looking for was getting to the stops on time and maintaining buoyancy during the stops.

So, what is this simulated decompression dive? You do all the calculations but then make the whole dive shallow enough that it is no deco and pretend to do the stops? Besides going through the exercise of the calculations, what do you learn? Are making the pretend stops more difficult than a safety stop? And, after you do the simulated deco dive, what are you qualified to do? What is normally used for gas, a back mounted single?

I assume this dive is planned for air. This dive would be well beyond what I define as light deco. Even with a very aggressive decompression algorithm, I would have nearly a half hour of deco and would need about 80 cf of gas

 

[KenGordon]

So, what is this simulated decompression dive? You do all the calculations but then make the whole dive shallow enough that it is no deco and pretend to do the stops? Besides going through the exercise of the calculations, what do you learn? Are making the pretend stops more difficult than a safety stop? And, after you do the simulated deco dive, what are you qualified to do? What is normally used for gas, a back mounted single?

I assume this dive is planned for air. This dive would be well beyond what I define as light deco. Even with a very aggressive decompression algorithm, I would have nearly a half hour of deco and would need about 80 cf of gas

The maximum depth for an SD trainee is 20m, so of course this is simulated. In general it is best to make sure they can do it at all before doing it for real. On 'proper' deco courses I expect the initial dives will involve a simulated failure and so an early ascent to avoid real deco.

The mix can be air to 36% but would be planned as air. 80cuft is about 2/3 of a single 15l so perfect for this dive, although the tables give 1@9 and 6@6 so probably the plan used less gas than your one.

The calculations are generally the hard part. Keeping to time is important and holding a stop is a real skill. At this level they ought to be able to do the stops but it is a learning thing.

 

[Edward3c]

So, what is this simulated decompression dive? You do all the calculations but then make the whole dive shallow enough that it is no deco and pretend to do the stops? Besides going through the exercise of the calculations, what do you learn? Are making the pretend stops more difficult than a safety stop? And, after you do the simulated deco dive, what are you qualified to do? What is normally used for gas, a back mounted single?

I assume this dive is planned for air. This dive would be well beyond what I define as light deco. Even with a very aggressive decompression algorithm, I would have nearly a half hour of deco and would need about 80 cf of gas

The dive can be planned on air or nitrox, normally on air. The practical part is to ensure the student can hit 9m at the 28th minute, hold for a 1 minute stop then hit the 6m stop on the 30th minute, hold for 6 minutes and hit the surface on minute 37.

The idea behind doing a shallow dive is the prevent a DCI hit if timings aren't achieved.

Kit configuration is down to the individual, can be single with pony or twins.

 

[scubadada]

The maximum depth for an SD trainee is 20m, so of course this is simulated. In general it is best to make sure they can do it at all before doing it for real. On 'proper' deco courses I expect the initial dives will involve a simulated failure and so an early ascent to avoid real deco.

The mix can be air to 36% but would be planned as air. 80cuft is about 2/3 of a single 15l so perfect for this dive, although the tables give 1@9 and 6@6 so probably the plan used less gas than your one.

The calculations are generally the hard part. Keeping to time is important and holding a stop is a real skill. At this level they ought to be able to do the stops but it is a learning thing.

The dive can be planned on air or nitrox, normally on air. The practical part is to ensure the student can hit 9m at the 28th minute, hold for a 1 minute stop then hit the 6m stop on the 30th minute, hold for 6 minutes and hit the surface on minute 37.

The idea behind doing a shallow dive is the prevent a DCI hit if timings aren't achieved.

Kit configuration is down to the individual, can be single with pony or twins.

Thank you both for your quick replies, I'm trying to understand BSAC training.

So, a Sports Diver can dive to 35m/115 ft if they do the requisite post qualification dives. Are they qualified to do decompression dives after the S03 dive or is additional experience necessary? I assume this is buddy diving and not solo. Is a redundant gas supply required or is the buddy's gas supply sufficient for decompression?

 

[KenGordon]

Thank you both for your quick replies, I'm trying to understand BSAC training.

So, a Sports Diver can dive to 35m/115 ft if they do the requisite post qualification dives. Are they qualified to do decompression dives after the S03 dive or is additional experience necessary? I assume this is buddy diving and not solo. Is a redundant gas supply required or is the buddy's gas supply sufficient for decompression?

S03 is Sports Diver Open water lesson 3. There are 5 of those, a dive management practical and, some pool rescue work, a load of theory and an exam as well as a number of qualifying dives that all need doing before the diver is qualified. Now they can dive to 20m until they do accompanied depth experience dives gradually increasing to 35m. All the time they should dive within the Safe Diving Practices http://www.bsac.com/core/core_picker/download.asp?id=999. That means a no solo diving (except with a rope - very rare). If the only available spare gas is your buddy's then the plan had better still work for both divers decoing out on that.

 

[Edward3c]

Thank you both for your quick replies, I'm trying to understand BSAC training.

So, a Sports Diver can dive to 35m/115 ft if they do the requisite post qualification dives. Are they qualified to do decompression dives after the S03 dive or is additional experience necessary? I assume this is buddy diving and not solo. Is a redundant gas supply required or is the buddy's gas supply sufficient for decompression?

A newly qualified Sports Diver (SD) is limited to 20m until they do the 25, 30 and 35m depth progression with an instructor. Depth progression is optional, but if not done there could be issues with insurance if there were an incident.

Two SDs, who have done the progression dive to 35m are considered qualified to plan and execute dives to these depths with mandatory deco stops. Many BSAC members don't go past SD as Dive Leader is more about dive management.

 

[scubadada]

S03 is Sports Diver Open water lesson 3. There are 5 of those, a dive management practical and, some pool rescue work, a load of theory and an exam as well as a number of qualifying dives that all need doing before the diver is qualified. Now they can dive to 20m until they do accompanied depth experience dives gradually increasing to 35m. All the time they should dive within the Safe Diving Practices http://www.bsac.com/core/core_picker/download.asp?id=999. That means a no solo diving (except with a rope - very rare). If the only available spare gas is your buddy's then the plan had better still work for both divers decoing out on that.

A newly qualified Sports Diver (SD) is limited to 20m until they do the 25, 30 and 35m depth progression with an instructor. Depth progression is optional, but if not done there could be issues with insurance is there were an incident.

Two SDs, who have done the progression dive to 35m are considered qualified to plan and execute dives to these depths with mandatory deco stops. Many BSAC members don't go past SD as Dive Leader is more about dive management.

Again, thank you both for your prompt responses, they have helped me immensely. The BSAC system is very different than what I am used to. Just to be clear, two Sports Divers can do deco following their training without additional experience or training? This would simply be following S03?

 

[KenGordon]

It is worth mentioning that it usually takes weeks or months to get qualified as a Sports Diver. Typically they do one or two lessons a week. Maybe a weekend away will allow four lessons, more likely a couple of lessons and a couple of experience dives.

The conditions are relatively cold, relatively poor vis and tidal. Dive sites are usually wrecks with square profiles. This means that people must take diving seriously, turning up unprepared will result in a very disappointing day.

Again, thank you both for your prompt responses, they have helped me immensely. The BSAC system is very different than what I am used to. Just to be clear, two Sports Divers can do deco following their training without additional experience or training? This would simply be following S03?

They have to have finished the whole course, including the experience dives.

It is quite a different system to the typical commercial agencies. The key is that it is about going diving. The type of diving is such that various things are necessary. These things are in the training. The idea is to get people who you will personally dive with for the long term and know you are in safe hands.