Reverse Patch Diving

[flots am]

Really? I found it to be pretty easy... and a great way to spend a quite afternoon stalking (with camera) the koi of the east end. I just paid the $16 to rent the transponder, told them my dive plan (hanging around the short of the east end from the pump house to the south shore Cessna), and went diving.


What problem did you have?

Not a problem exactly, just an annoyance with the above requirements. They also required a $360 deposit on the transponder.

The additional money and paperwork made it not worth the effort.

 

[TMHeimer]

What does a transponder do? If it just alerts them that you're late to return wouldn't that probably be too late if you drown?

 

[flots am]

What does a transponder do? If it just alerts them that you're late to return wouldn't that probably be too late if you drown?

It's a body locater so if you die, you don't surprise anybody and end up on the news causing bad publicity for SCUBA diving.

They can just go out in a boat and drag you back to shore.

 

[doctormike]

What does a transponder do? If it just alerts them that you're late to return wouldn't that probably be too late if you drown?

It's not for the diver. It's for the search team, I'm assuming.

 

[scubadada]

With the exception of a phenomenal SDI solo diver course at Jupiter Dive Center in 2013, I have not participated in any training since 2005. To each their own.

Good diving, Craig

 

[Stoo]

Patch collectors have been around as long as I can remember. I think that the difference is that the agencies now take one legitimate course and make 11 out of it, strictly for financial gain. It used to be an "Advanced" card meant something... You were trained in navigation, night diving, modest deco procedures, "better diving" skills and on and on. Now that same training will leave you with an empty wallet and a pile of little badges.


I'm surprised PADI hasn't adopted a sash similar to the Boy Scouts for sticking all the little badges on...

 

[boulderjohn]

I refuse to take a course that requires I present with the very skill that is my goal. Yes, I would need to find an unpaid mentor. I just don't buy into this business model.

I don't know if I am saying quite the same thing, but different agencies have different philosophies about what it takes to complete a course. For some, the idea is to have the student demonstrate that they have they are competent and safe enough to go out on their own and get the experience it takes to achieve expert status. For others, the certification will not be granted until you have demonstrated expert status, which means you need to be pretty well on your way to expert at the start of class if you want to achieve at at its scheduled end.

I think that you would be much better off by spending an dive or two at Dutch with a coach, as I had suggested above. No course material, no academics, no agency, no card. Just someone to help you get your buoyancy and trim dialed in. Very cost and time efficient, and personalized.

One of the problems with scuba instruction is that from the very start, it was always attached to some sort of prescribed curriculum with a specific goal in mind. Other activities are not like that. I have taken many lessons in both skiing and golf. In both cases, I go to an instructor and get instruction. Sometimes I go with a specific goal in mind and ask for help. Other times it is more of a "take a look at what I am doing and tell me what to do better" approach. Some scuba instructors will do this, but not most. I don't think it is because they resist the idea. I think that they just haven't thought about it. I know some instructors who do it. In theory, I do, too. That program is offered through the dive shop where I teach. Students can just sign up for time with an instructor, just like a ski or golf lesson. If anyone actually signed up for the class, I bet they would really like it. Of course, until someone does sign up for it, I won't know how they like it, will I?

 

[drrich2]

Most people don't have sweet public shore diving available, and their own compressor, and so getting the basic OW cert. is, for practical purposes, required and thus a de facto license to engage in scuba diving.

The next cert. a lot of people get is nitrox, which is for practical purposes a required license to dive nitrox.

AOW is often viewed as a good idea to venture beyond basic OW limits under supportive instructor supervision, particularly where depth is concerned. And, while not to the same extent as OW and Nitrox, sometimes proves to be a required 'license' to do some fairly common dives with charter boat op.s (e.g.: I saw 2 OW guys denied diving a deep wreck out of Key Largo, as they lacked AOW and weren't carrying log books documenting deep dive experience).

The Rescue course is often strongly recommended, but requires you have have CPR and First Aid training (under the PADI system, anyway).

My point is, the early thrust of diver education either requires or strongly encourages certifications. It gets people in the habit of pursuing cert.s, since the card in effect 'licenses' the person to do something extra.

Many people are not accustomed to paying for mentoring. If they are paying, they often have a specific goal, and want a structured formal program to get there, ideally with good production quality educational materials from a reputable agency to assist learning. A formal course lets the student know what he or she will be paying for, what is expected and what will be granted if the course demands are met.

And I imagine many people would, if paying and performing to meet criteria for significant advancement, ask why not get a cert. card of some sort?

Richard.

 

[doctormike]

One of the problems with scuba instruction is that from the very start, it was always attached to some sort of prescribed curriculum with a specific goal in mind. Other activities are not like that. I have taken many lessons in both skiing and golf. In both cases, I go to an instructor and get instruction. Sometimes I go with a specific goal in mind and ask for help. Other times it is more of a "take a look at what I am doing and tell me what to do better" approach. Some scuba instructors will do this, but not most. I don't think it is because they resist the idea. I think that they just haven't thought about it. I know some instructors who do it. In theory, I do, too. That program is offered through the dive shop where I teach. Students can just sign up for time with an instructor, just like a ski or golf lesson. If anyone actually signed up for the class, I bet they would really like it. Of course, until someone does sign up for it, I won't know how they like it, will I?

Well, yes, this was the whole point of my post. That it IS possible to get instruction without a prescribed curriculum, it IS possible to get open ended coaching, and it DOES help us become better divers. And by posting this, I was hoping to encourage divers to do exactly what you are describing. As an instructor, this seems like a win-win, you are getting paid for your time and your expertise, and the diver is getting good coaching. Not every coaching session needs an agency, a curriculum or a card.

Many people are not accustomed to paying for mentoring.

You don't want those people as students!

If they are paying, they often have a specific goal, and want a structured formal program to get there, ideally with good production quality educational materials from a reputable agency to assist learning. A formal course lets the student know what he or she will be paying for, what is expected and what will be granted if the course demands are met.

And I imagine many people would, if paying and performing to meet criteria for significant advancement, ask why not get a cert. card of some sort?

Again, I'm really not implying that there is no reason to have certification classes or cards, I have plenty.

But there are times when just want a coach, not a card. I have taken plenty of ski lessons, and all I want is for the instructor to look at how I'm skiing and give me some objective advice. I don't expect to get a pre-determined syllabus or a card that says that I can now do the double black diamonds at Telluride..

 

[drrich2]

What I was alluding to was that many people associate mentoring with a strong information relationship, sort of an 'alliance,' between a senior, more accomplished person of standing in an industry or organization, and a junior, less accomplished person of lower standing in same. The senior individual, for reasons such as friendship and altruism, chooses to take a specific junior 'under his wing' for instruction, coaching and advocacy to facilitate the junior's rise to power, competence, achievement, etc...

The idea of paying somebody to be a mentor would sound like paying somebody to be your friend, viewed from that perspective.

I'm not saying there's no other form of mentorship; I've heard of organizations trying to bureaucratically create mentorship 'programs' to enhance success rates for targeted special interest groups (e.g.: women, minorities).

But unless you have good personal knowledge of a given instructor, then you're putting significant trust in him to teach you what you need or want to know, in an open ended form with no course standards to define minimum content. Assuming you're willing to pursue training without even knowing just what's going to be taught.

Now here's an interesting question; let's say I pay my old PADI instructor $400 for private mentoring, but it's not a formal course. Let's say I have some sort of problem and drown on one of the training dives. Does his liability insurance cover him if my wife sues?

Richard.