Resort's " New Normal " Rule - No AIR 2 or diving your long hose

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I only know a statistically insignificant number of people who have had to deal with OOG divers. 6 out of 7 had their primaries ripped from their mouths.
If you go off the BSAC study, there were only 3 recorded cases of that happening over 10 years, which is part of what lead them to their "no primary donate" decision.

Sounds to me like their decision is being made off of a non-representational, small sample size group.
 
I did the first OW dives for my tech class (TDI) last weekend. No actual air share for drills. The recipient wasn’t clipping off the long hose reg either. They were holding it next to their face.
 
The stats only show reported incidents, I have seen this.... it was not reported as no one was injured.

If you go off the BSAC study, there were only 3 recorded cases of that happening over 10 years, which is part of what lead them to their "no primary donate" decision.

Sounds to me like their decision is being made off of a non-representational, small sample size group.

My experience of diving with a BSAC branch club is that almost all incidents are recorded and reported to the central club administration. It's viewed as good practice.

It really surprised me at first as my experience had been as working in a resort where minor Out of Air incidents would not be recorded or reported to anyone.

I really don't understand where you guys are coming from with all your suppositions about the underlying data.

Where is your evidence supporting the Hog loop ?
 
If you go off the BSAC study, there were only 3 recorded cases of that happening over 10 years, which is part of what lead them to their "no primary donate" decision.

Sounds to me like their decision is being made off of a non-representational, small sample size group.
Anyone have a link?

Were these for people diving together? My unqualified guess is that there will be better behavior from people who know each other and are diving together as opposed people on vacation diving in groups without any specified dive buddy or insta buddies who lack buddy skills.
 
If you go off the BSAC study, there were only 3 recorded cases of that happening over 10 years, which is part of what lead them to their "no primary donate" decision.

Sounds to me like their decision is being made off of a non-representational, small sample size group.

You need to be aware that the BSAC track incidents year on year and look for trends. They also extremely aware that low sample sizes can result in statistical distortions. Which is why it sometimes seems they are slow to change.

The incident report has resulted in the BSAC changing procedures over a prolonged period.
It's driven down boating and surface incidents quite markedly, which used to be truly horrendous.
AAS became mandatory, and Buddy breathing was dropped from the training scheme, as a result of the information the incident reports where producing.
Uncontrolled ascents have been reduced because of changes to the training scheme.
They also identified equipment issues in the past.

I can remember being taught to always donate the AAS in the direct line of site of the casualty, so that it was between the casualty and my face (blocking the casualties view of the regulator I was breathing from).

As I understood it, the reason for not teaching primary donate was far more complete than just the data from the incident report, which was one of the pieces of information included in the final decision. It included issues based around the diverse level of diving practiced by the membership. Trying to integrate divers of different levels within the same environment, trainees, and novice divers, with those doing technical diving. Equipment issues ,standard rig, long hose + twinsets, rebreathers, etc. Diving practice, most BSAC divers use Rich right & Lean left (rather than all stages on the left. I also believe the lawyers where involved with issues over liability over removing a working regulator from a divers mouth that might contribute to that diver being compromised in an incident, that was probably related to the standing rule, never put the rescuer at risk. I don't know the details, just the result.
 
As I understood it, the reason for not teaching primary donate was far more complete than just the data from the incident report, which was one of the pieces of information included in the final decision. It included issues based around the diverse level of diving practiced by the membership. Trying to integrate divers of different levels within the same environment, trainees, and novice divers, with those doing technical diving. Equipment issues ,standard rig, long hose + twinsets, rebreathers, etc. Diving practice, most BSAC divers use Rich right & Lean left (rather than all stages on the left. I also believe the lawyers where involved with issues over liability over removing a working regulator from a divers mouth that might contribute to that diver being compromised in an incident, that was probably related to the standing rule, never put the rescuer at risk. I don't know the details, just the result.
This is very much in line with that I've read. Less about safety and more about consistent training across all levels due largely to tort concerns.

The problem is that people quote an extremely limited study as "proof" that one way is unsafe. The data doesn't appear to be there to support (or disprove) that.
 
Anyone have a link?

See here

Although they only go back 6 or 7 years I think. Always worth a read.
They even track the UK weather. You can see the incidents spikes moving dependent on what kind of spring and summer we get.

EDIT
The on line reports only go back 6 or 7 years, they go back to well before I started diving. You can get hard copies from HQ for earlier years. I still have a lot from when I used to go to DOC.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

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