Resort's " New Normal " Rule - No AIR 2 or diving your long hose

[saxman242]

Anyone have a link?

Were these for people diving together? My unqualified guess is that there will be better behavior from people who know each other and are diving together as opposed people on vacation diving in groups without any specified dive buddy or insta buddies who lack buddy skills.

This is the best you'll get right now: Document

The actual data they pulled from is no longer available online.

 

[Gareth J]

This is very much in line with that I've read. Less about safety and more about consistent training across all levels due largely to tort concerns.

The problem is that people quote an extremely limited study as "proof" that one way is unsafe. The data doesn't appear to be there to support (or disprove) that.

I think the liability issue was what convinced them not to change. Bloody ambulance chasers.

 

[saxman242]

My experience of diving with a BSAC branch club is that almost all incidents are recorded and reported to the central club administration. It's viewed as good practice.

They may report every single dive that ever happened in the UK. That doesn't make it representational of diving everywhere. That is a limited sample size in a non-representational group.


It'd be like looking at all the recorded issues collected by GUE divers and saying "there has never once been a recorded issue using an Air 2. They're obviously the solution to all diving problems."

 

[Gareth J]

They may report every single dive that ever happened in the UK. That doesn't make it representational of diving everywhere. That is a limited sample size in a non-representational group.

All UK incidents (not agency specific), including information from all the UK emergency services, Hyperbaric services, RNLI, Coastguard, and press, as well as BSAC members and branches.
Overseas incidents involving BSAC members.

DAN use the BSAC report for some of their incident analysis.

I believe it's the longest year on year documented record of diving incidents.

 

[Umuntu]

They may report every single dive that ever happened in the UK. That doesn't make it representational of diving everywhere. That is a limited sample size in a non-representational group.


It'd be like looking at all the recorded issues collected by GUE divers and saying "there has never once been a recorded issue using an Air 2. They're obviously the solution to all diving problems."

But it is representational of UK diving ... which encompasses a broad range of diving conditions ... although fairly cold and not great vis generally

Again show me any any evidence, really any, supporting the Hog loop ... I'm open to being persuaded

 

[Gareth J]

But it is representational of UK diving ... which encompasses a broad range of diving conditions ... although fairly cold and not great vis generally

Again show me any any evidence, really any, supporting the Hog loop ... I'm open to being persuaded

I can see the logic with primary donate when you are diving multiple mixes. The regulator in the rescuer's mouth is safe at the depth you are at.
I can see the counter argument that bottom mix is carried on the back, and stage are decompression mixes, so taking the AAS is a minimal risk issue, even with a hypoxic bottom mix. If you have an issue with your deco' or travel mix you would normally just move back to your previous mix, at least for sanity breaths whilst you sort out what to do next.

I dive a rebreather, so primary donate is not a good option if you are diving with me. Thats why I lug a stage around on all my dives, even shallow dives!

 

[Aviyes]

You are at higher risk contracting COVID on the flight to/from any of these destinations, than from someone's regulator. Just silly stupid practices, trying to encourage continued diving as soon as possible after lifting of travel restrictions. Just as silly, as desk spacing, mask use, and extra sanitation is in a school setting.

 

[MaxBottomtime]

It is simple. There are several didactic organizations, such as Fips/Cmas or Bsac, and professional training schools, such as Italian Firefighers or Istituto Rossi, where the rule is to never, ever remove a working air source from your mouth for helping another guy.
So if you decide to give air to someone, you cannot give your primary, you must use your secondary. The Air2 cannot be donated, so it is not considered a valid secondary. A true secondary is mandatory.
I understand that in some didactics or organizations donating the primary is allowed, perhaps even suggested (despite the Bsac study proofs it is less safe than donating the secondary)

I was trained to buddy breathe before backup regulators became commonplace. We swapped the reg from our mouth several times. I now use a long hose primary with a bungeed backup. The reason we donate our primary is that we know it is working, and it will calm an OOA situation by giving the out of air diver what he needs immediately. The donor has just taken a breath, giving him more than enough time to take the backup from under his chin and place it in his mouth. There is no panicking. The donor is in full control of the situation.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

. The reason we donate our primary is that we know it is working

I've always questioned this. Has there ever been a documented case of where a diver donated the primary, went to the short hose (which was checked at the beginning of the dive) and it didn't work when needed?

and it will calm an OOA situation by giving the out of air diver what he needs immediately.

There I agree. There is no faster way of donating gas than the primary. To me, that is the reason to provide the primary, as an OOG diver will want to breath ASAP.

 

[loosenit2]

I was trained to buddy breathe before backup regulators became commonplace. We swapped the reg from our mouth several times. I now use a long hose primary with a bungeed backup. The reason we donate our primary is that we know it is working, and it will calm an OOA situation by giving the out of air diver what he needs immediately. The donor has just taken a breath, giving him more than enough time to take the backup from under his chin and place it in his mouth. There is no panicking. The donor is in full control of the situation.

have you considered that the lack of panic has nothing to do with the method of donation and everything to do with the level of training associated? Most 7ft hog loop primary donate users are technical divers, who by definition have more training and experience than recreational drivers, hence they tend to stay more calm under pressure. It is important to figure out why something works so you are attributing the success to the right thing.