Rescue Cert, is it truly a must have cert, or not?

[NW Dive Dawg]

Well, if you made it more like the real thing, it would be a lot easier for the student: What Drowning Really Looks Like. Here is a quote from that DAN article:

"The popular conception of what drowning looks like is not accurate. Unlike this photo, drowning people usually can’t call out for help, and there is very little splashing or waving. Drowning is actually a very quiet and undramatic action."​

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In the Rescue Course, students are indeed taught how to approach a thrashing diver, even though that is extremely rare. If you are going to go beyond that and risk the student's well being, you are likely going even farther from the real thing and would indeed be worthy of prosecution. For example, when I took the rescue course and approached a fellow student simulating panic, I did as I was taught and used the method of diving down to swim below the student and come up behind him. When I did, he dived down after me, and he tackled me at a depth of about 4 feet. As the instructor was quick to point out, a panicked diver on the surface would never do that. They are struggling to stay on the surface, and they will not intentionally dive below it.

One of the things you learn is that a diver thrashing about on the surface is in no danger. If you think it is too dangerous to approach, then wait until the diver gets tired.

If you take a course you learn those things.

Brother.....if you can predict how a panicked diver will react then you should start buying lotto tickets. And the statement that a diver thrashing about on the surface is in no danger is just plain wrong. That's like saying that a skydiver with a failing chute is in no danger. Might be true at the moment but things can change once you hit the ground.

 

[NW Dive Dawg]

So are you saying that if someone is panicked and people are coming to the rescue, the person should interview those arriving on the scene and select the one to do the rescue?

I never said that.... what I did say that my preference would be qualified over certified.

In terms of rescue skills, how does one become qualified without becoming certified?

Knowledge, experience and practical application....all of which can be accomplished without ever getting the cert...

Read the OP's question.......... Is the Rescue cert a must have?

 

[Wibble]

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Every time I have taught the course, the students who signed up for it were tech divers who wanted a card so they could do solo NDL dives. Those courses were all very quick indeed.

If, on the other hand, someone had come to me without those skills, I would have taken as long as was necessary for the student to master the requirements.

That’s quite generous if the person has only done AOW recreational diving — and to be commended.

There’s a vast difference between the core skills required for recreational diving compared with technical diving.

 

[boulderjohn]

And the statement that a diver thrashing about on the surface is in no danger is just plain wrong. That's like saying that a skydiver with a failing chute is in no danger.

I am not sure, but that may be the most ludicrous statement I have read in a long time.

A skydiver with a failing chute is in supreme and inevitable danger. There is nothing you can do to save him.

A man thrashing around at the surface is breathing air and will continue to breathe air until he tires and begins to sink. At that point he is in danger, but you should have no trouble approaching and rescuing him. If, before that point happens, you can get him to stop panicking enough to inflate the BCD, the danger will be over without any real effort on your part.

 

[boulderjohn]

That’s quite generous if the person has only done AOW recreational diving — and to be commended.

There’s a vast difference between the core skills required for recreational diving compared with technical diving.

That person will also be starting the course with 100 dives, and that is more than most AOW divers will achieve in their lifetime.

And it is not being generous. That is how PADI courses work. If I were to set a specific, short timeline and then fail students who were not done in time, I would be due for some serious retraining.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

That person will also be starting the course with 100 dives, and that is more than most AOW divers will achieve in their lifetime.

That's a sad statistic. Where did that come from?

 

[Gandalf-the-Diver]

Every time I have taught the course, the students who signed up for it were tech divers who wanted a card so they could do solo NDL dives. Those courses were all very quick indeed.

I wanted to do the Solo course, so when I joined my LDS drop in dives ... and my air consumption was much higher than my dive buddies, I could surface solo, but still diving within my cert level. A liability thing for my chosen shop. I went from absolute newb OW diver, to SDI Solo cert in 11 months. I had 170 dives in when I started my Solo course. The instructor picked my brain for a whole day on dry land, before we even saw water.

 

[Belzelbub]

I am not sure what that means. Are you saying that people become qualified for rescue diving skills by making failed rescues?

The trial and error approach sounds pretty ridiculous. The whole point of training classes is to learn from those that have tried and succeeded (or failed) in the past. We can build upon the trial and error of others without having to repeat their failures.

That must take a while. I have never seen an actual rescue in my life.

I’ve participated in one dive related rescue. I don’t currently have a Rescue cert, but will do so in the next couple months. The rescue occurred during a Deep certification dive. 1st dive of the day. Student panicked underwater, regained control and finished the dive, but was gasping for air at the surface.

Instructor (same one I’ll do rescue with shortly) immediately took control, and gave tasks to those that could help. An instructor from the same shop had just arrived, so he sent her for the O2 kit in his truck. Told me to bring the student’s gear in, and had another student call 911. Once ashore, the student was lain down on the ground and administered oxygen, the other student was on the phone with 911, then I was sent to the dive shop on-site for an AED (they were no help. Had a trainer, but no real AED, or had no idea where it was). So, I let the instructors know that there was no AED, then I recalled lessons from my EFR course in the past. Address the student gave 911 was to the dive shop across the road. I stood by the entrance to the dive site to direct the paramedics.

In the end, the rescue was successful. Diver was diagnosed with IPE, and has made a full recovery. What made it successful is that there were people that knew what to do, and everyone involved was given tasks that they could do to help. Trial and error wouldn’t have been quite so smooth.

While I do agree that qualified beats certified, certifying is a way to increase qualification.

 

[NW Dive Dawg]

I am not sure, but that may be the most ludicrous statement I have read in a long time.

A skydiver with a failing chute is in supreme and inevitable danger. There is nothing you can do to save him.

A man thrashing around at the surface is breathing air and will continue to breathe air until he tires and begins to sink. At that point he is in danger, but you should have no trouble approaching and rescuing him. If, before that point happens, you can get him to stop panicking enough to inflate the BCD, the danger will be over without any real effort on your part.

Yeah.... the skydiver analogy was stupid.... you got me there.

A diver thrashing around on the surface is in danger in my opinion. In most cases the potential rescuer does not know what the actual issue is. Could be anything from a medical issue to surfacing after an OOA scenario to just plain unexplained panic.

Here is a quote from that DAN article:

"The popular conception of what drowning looks like is not accurate. Unlike this photo, drowning people usually can’t call out for help, and there is very little splashing or waving. Drowning is actually a very quiet and undramatic action."​

Maybe the actual moment of "drowning" can be undramatic and quiet.....but the "pre-drowning part" can be quite active...

One of the things you learn is that a diver thrashing about on the surface is in no danger.

What agency teaches that? There are plenty of reasons why a diver thrashing about on the surface can be in danger. Medical issue, failed BC or wing, OOA, over weighted, etc, etc.....then compounded by panic.

 

[boulderjohn]

Maybe the actual moment of "drowning" can be undramatic and quiet.....but the "pre-drowning part" can be quite active...

That's not what the article says. You can search for other articles as well. Google the phrase "Drowning doesn't look like drowning." What is your source for saying they are all wrong?